Thinking of Defiance III

[Ohmu]

Hi all.

It's about time for me to upgrade my laptop, and this time I discovered that there's such thing as custom laptops.
So far Defiance III option looks quite tempting for me, I just love how it looks and love the ability to choose the components.
However there are several points I'd like to ask people here about:

1 - Is the 200W AC adapter enough for GTX 1070 + i7 + SSD + HD? Or I should better go for 230W? And what if I choose i7 7820HK?
2 - Is there a chance that 7700HQ will bottleneck the GTX 1070? Is there a reason to pick i7 7820HK instead?
3 - Does this laptop even support 2400MHz RAM or I should better pick 2133?
4 - How does this laptop perform in terms of temperatures? Will it be able to decently cool GTX 1070 and i7 7700HQ/i7 7820HK?
5 - Is there anybody here from outside the UK who ordered products here? Did they arrive well and undamaged?
6 - Can I pay for it with iDeal if I live in the NL?

Thanks.

 

[Oussebon]

1 - Is the 200W AC adapter enough for GTX 1070 + i7 + SSD + HD? Or I should better go for 230W?

I believe the 200W one is for the GTX 1060 and the 230W one is for the GTX 1070. The price is the same.

And what if I choose i7 7820HK?

Don't choose it. It's extremely expensive and offers almost no performance gains. It's meant for overclocking. If you need extra CPU horsepower, consider the Octane.

2 - Is there a chance that 7700HQ will bottleneck the GTX 1070?

In almost all games, no. In certain very CPU dependent games with CPU dependent settings turned up, it's possible. But those games could also choke on an overclocked desktop 7700k.

3 - Does this laptop even support 2400MHz RAM or I should better pick 2133?

It does support it and I would buy it, depending on the price.

4 - How does this laptop perform in terms of temperatures? Will it be able to decently cool GTX 1070 and i7 7700HQ/i7 7820HK?

The temps should be within the hardware's limits. Unless you're sat in the desert. If it's faulty and overheats, PCs should fix it for you under the warranty. You can also use laptop cooling pads to help improve airflow.

5 - Is there anybody here from outside the UK who ordered products here? Did they arrive well and undamaged?

Quite a few people - PCS seem quite popular in Italy for example. I think I saw someone from NL recently.
You can read reviews on the forums here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-Show-off-your-new-PC-Laptop! and some will be fron non-UK purchasers.

6 - Can I pay for it with iDeal if I live in the NL?

You may need to ask PCS directly if nobody on here has an answer for you.

Hope that helps a bit

 

[Ohmu]

If it's faulty and overheats, PCs should fix it for you under the warranty.

Yeah I saw few posts about people having troubles with it. The question is 'what is the chance', as I'm buying it just before a study year, and I really need it to work flawlessly during the year. Plus it won't be that easy for me to do it as for people in the UK.

Hope that helps a bit

It sure does. You answered on most of my questions. Thanks a lot mate! :yes:

I hope that some random PCS worker passing by can help me with the last question.

 

[Oussebon]

Yeah I saw few posts about people having troubles with it. The question is 'what is the chance', as I'm buying it just before a study year, and I really need it to work flawlessly during the year. Plus it won't be that easy for me to do it as for people in the UK.

I don't know what the chances are. I've seen 2-3 people reporting thermal issues and I imagine PCS sell hundreds of Defiance IIIs with 1070s (they sell a lot of computers), so I'd expect the chances of getting one that has problems are pretty low. But I can't give you hard statistics on that.

I hope that some random PCS worker passing by can help me with the last question.

The forums are mostly for customers and there's a very good chance they won't see it. You'd be best off phoning or emailing. Phoning can get a much faster response.

 

[Ohmu]

But I can't give you hard statistics on that.

Yeah, sure, I understand. My question about chances was more like a "loud thoughts" than an actual question directed to you

Phoning can get a much faster response.

Gonna email them, as I'm outside of the EU atm. Thanks again.

 

[Ohmu]

One more question I can't stop trying to figure out: why is the difference between gtx 1060 and 1070 is around ~170 EU on this website, whereas everywhere else I looked it varies from 250 to 280 EU? Anyone here has any ideas on that matter?

 

[Oussebon]

No idea. Maybe the GTX 1060 is more expensive here and so the price gap is smaller? Maybe PCS are just a lot cheaper

Other than the Q-Max designs (which are labelled separately) a mobile 1070 is a mobile 1070; there aren't multiple versions with different VRAM or core counts or anything, as far as I know.

 

[Filbee]

One more question I can't stop trying to figure out: why is the difference between gtx 1060 and 1070 is around ~170 EU on this website, whereas everywhere else I looked it varies from 250 to 280 EU? Anyone here has any ideas on that matter?

Maybe the 1060's you saw elsewhere were the 3gb versions and not the 6gb ones, that might explain the larger difference between the 1060 and 1070?

 

[Oussebon]

Though if it's for a laptop I think they're all 6gb and there's no difference in core count between manufacturers - occasionally mobile GPUs are clocked differently but it's still the same one afaik.

 

[Ohmu]

Nah, all those 1060s had 6gb, so unlikely. As for the price gap, it may be possible, but it seems way too huge to me tbh. The first thing that came to my mind is maybe here they use used chips or something like that. Weird...
I tried to configure exactly the same laptop setup on ~5 other NL/GER websites, but I always end up having a price that is higher than here by 300-400 Euro.. It's awesome but suspicious at the same time.

 

[Oussebon]

You can consult sites like Trustpilot for reviews. No company is perfect or immune from making errors but I've had 2 computers from them and they've proven themselves to be entirely legit - any problems I've ever had with hardware, they've always taken responsibility for.

I don't think PCS do any second hand or used hardware, even when people ask for it. Since the CPUs and GPUs are soldered onto the motherboards there wouldn't be much scope for having 2nd hand GTX 1070s anyway.

It's not possible to comment on specific competitors, but there's a Clevo reseller in Germany that I know who are very famous and seem to have quite a high price premium for the brand, which they have emblazoned across the chassis. It's not only the likes of Dell etc that can have premium for the brands.

 

[Ohmu]

No, of course I'm not claiming they do it, by no means. Just saying that its a bit weird.

 

[Ohmu]

Alright, I finally decided to give it a try and ordered myself a defiance iii laptop here. However my happiness didn't last long as I decided to take a look into detailed specifications page for this laptop, for the chipset it says that it uses Intel HM170 chipset, which in its turn (according to what I've been able to find out), supports 6th gen Intel processors (so apparently it won't support exclusive features of the kaby lake processor), and the ram frequency support is up to 2133mhz. Both according to Intel specifications page. I'm quite worried right now actually. I know that my laptop will work just fine even if both of my concerns are true, but still it would work better if they weren't.
So could somebody calm me down and reveal that my concerns are actually false and both kaby lake features and 2400 mhz ram are actually supported by this chipset?

Ps. Else why in the world would they place a processors and 2400 mhz ram option here if they aren't supported...

 

[keynes]

Is it going to affect performance for the applications you are planning to run? The i7-6700HQ would be cheaper but I don't think it is available anymore from PCS.

 

[Ohmu]

I don't really know if it will, it probably could by a little bit.
Yeah, 6700hq is no longer available on this website. 7700hq itself supports 2400 ram, but the chipset is unlikely. Still hope someone will jump in to prove me wrong...

 

[Oussebon]

Kaby Lake (7700HQ - 200 series chipsets) was a very basic refresh of Skylake (6700HQ - 100 series chipsets ). It fits the same sockets and is compatible with 100-series mobos. Indeed PCS's main home PC Intel configurator is based on the H110M-R motherboard, with Kaby Lake CPUs, and there is no problem there.

Kaby Lake fits the same socket and works fine. Older units of 100-series chipset mobos may have required a BIOS update before installing a Kaby Lake CPU but newer ones would ship with an updated BIOS and it's something PCS would take care of anyway.

As far as I can see, the only problem here is that the text hasn't been updated to say "Supports 6th and 7th generation CPUs" as opposed to "Supports 6th Gen CPUs"s.

As for the RAM, it's not just PCS that sell 2400MHz RAM in these kinds of Clevo laptops. You've only to look at their competitors (who were doing it first too, I recall seeing a German manufacturer offering faster RAM long before PCS did).

The Clevo site does say it supports XMP: http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=989&lang=en

I don't have anything concrete to hand to prove that the RAM runs at 2400MHz, but as you say it would be bonkers for them to sell it and it not run at that speed. You can always phone them to ask. I haven't seen anyone complain that their 2400MHz RAM wasn't running like 2400MHz RAM.

 

[Ohmu]

Correct me if im wrong, but it should be the CPU or motherboard which should support the XMP, how can clevo support it, when they just produce laptop chassis? (or at least only their chassis is used in that laptop)

 

[Roblucci]

Alright, I finally decided to give it a try and ordered myself a defiance iii laptop here. However my happiness didn't last long as I decided to take a look into detailed specifications page for this laptop, for the chipset it says that it uses Intel HM170 chipset, which in its turn (according to what I've been able to find out), supports 6th gen Intel processors (so apparently it won't support exclusive features of the kaby lake processor), and the ram frequency support is up to 2133mhz. Both according to Intel specifications page. I'm quite worried right now actually. I know that my laptop will work just fine even if both of my concerns are true, but still it would work better if they weren't.
So could somebody calm me down and reveal that my concerns are actually false and both kaby lake features and 2400 mhz ram are actually supported by this chipset?

Ps. Else why in the world would they place a processors and 2400 mhz ram option here if they aren't supported...

Kaby Lake (7700HQ - 200 series chipsets) was a very basic refresh of Skylake (6700HQ - 100 series chipsets ). It fits the same sockets and is compatible with 100-series mobos. Indeed PCS's main home PC Intel configurator is based on the H110M-R motherboard, with Kaby Lake CPUs, and there is no problem there.

Kaby Lake fits the same socket and works fine. Older units of 100-series chipset mobos may have required a BIOS update before installing a Kaby Lake CPU but newer ones would ship with an updated BIOS and it's something PCS would take care of anyway.

As far as I can see, the only problem here is that the text hasn't been updated to say "Supports 6th and 7th generation CPUs" as opposed to "Supports 6th Gen CPUs"s.

As for the RAM, it's not just PCS that sell 2400MHz RAM in these kinds of Clevo laptops. You've only to look at their competitors (who were doing it first too, I recall seeing a German manufacturer offering faster RAM long before PCS did).

The Clevo site does say it supports XMP: http://www.clevo.com.tw/clevo_prodetail.asp?id=989&lang=en

I don't have anything concrete to hand to prove that the RAM runs at 2400MHz, but as you say it would be bonkers for them to sell it and it not run at that speed. You can always phone them to ask. I haven't seen anyone complain that their 2400MHz RAM wasn't running like 2400MHz RAM.

Hi, I have looked into your concerns and I found that the Clevo model PCS uses is the Clevo P670HS-G, according to this page: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/clevo-laptops/40/ (I am not sure how much reliable the page is though, i just googled "pc specialist clevo").
The motherboard of this Clevo is the HM175, at least in this website https://www.notebookcheck.net/Nexoc-G734IV-Clevo-P670HS-G-Notebook-Review.197022.0.html, they used the chassis with the HM175.
After some research I found out that Intel didn't release a 200-series Chipset for the KabyLake mobile CPUs, but "reused" the 100-series boards. You can see on the Wiki page that both the HM170 and HM175 have the same specs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_chipsets.
In the tomshardware website (http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-optane-3d-xpoint-motherboard,news-54602.html), it is stated that the only feature that the KabyLake (200-series) motherboards offers on mobile platforms is the Optane Memory feature, which is a technology to retrieve data faster, you can find out more about it in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwH5Q8ZFJvw.
This is a quote I copied from the tomshardware article I linked above

Both Kaby Lake and Skylake CPUs can slot into the "new" 100-series motherboards, but Intel isn't supporting Optane caching for Skylake CPUs with the 100/C230 series chipsets. Instead, Intel supports the capability only to its 100-series HM175 and QM175 chipsets with Kaby Lake processors.

So as you can see the HM175 mobo will support the Optane technology as long as it has mounted a KabyLake CPU, which the i7-7700HQ is, so you should't be worried about losing any feature that the KabyLake CPU sup
For the RAM I am not sure about the clock speed, but I am quite confident it supports 2400 MHz, because in the notebookcheck.net website I linked before they listed the laptop with even DDR4-2666.
So what Oussebon said is pretty much correct, if you wanted a confirmation.

I believe the 200W one is for the GTX 1060 and the 230W one is for the GTX 1070. The price is the same.

Don't choose it. It's extremely expensive and offers almost no performance gains. It's meant for overclocking. If you need extra CPU horsepower, consider the Octane.

In almost all games, no. In certain very CPU dependent games with CPU dependent settings turned up, it's possible. But those games could also choke on an overclocked desktop 7700k.

It does support it and I would buy it, depending on the price.

The temps should be within the hardware's limits. Unless you're sat in the desert. If it's faulty and overheats, PCs should fix it for you under the warranty. You can also use laptop cooling pads to help improve airflow.

Quite a few people - PCS seem quite popular in Italy for example. I think I saw someone from NL recently.
You can read reviews on the forums here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-Show-off-your-new-PC-Laptop! and some will be fron non-UK purchasers.

You may need to ask PCS directly if nobody on here has an answer for you.

Hope that helps a bit

But I have a little question to ask, since I have bough the same laptop with the same specs I began to be afraid about the power brick I ordered since my is the 200W, when you said that for the 1070 you need the 230W. It that going to be an issue? And how much bigger is the 230W compared to the 200W? Because if it does not make a difference that I would like to take the smaller and lighter power brick.

 

[Oussebon]

?

They make the motherboards, not just the plastic frame. The motherboard pretty much is the chassis. If you think about it, in a laptop the mobo and the plastic case have to fit together so there's room for the specific cooling arrangements, the fans, heatpipes, vents, HDDs, etc, which are different in very many models. Do a google image search for "clevo motherboard" to see what I mean.

It's not like a desktop where you get ATX mobos that have a fairly uniform size and shape, with holes in specific places so you can screw them into any case.

If it's really worrying you, phone PCS and ask them if the 2400MHz DDR4 they sell in laptops will actually run at 2400MHz.

Fundamentally though, you covered it in this:

Ps. Else why in the world would they place a processors and 2400 mhz ram option here if they aren't supported...

Why indeed? The answer is that they are supported.

If they weren't, the forums would be flooded with people complaining about PCS, and the internet would be full of people complaining about Scan, Schenker, Xotic, cyberpowerPC, PC Specialist, and every other Clevo/Sager reseller selling systems with Clevo chassis, 7700HQs, and 2400MHz RAM.

 

[Ohmu]

Well, I thought that chipset = motherboard, so I thought if it's says Intel hm170 chipset, it means that it's Intel motherboard.
In any case I do hope you are correct, I'll try it for myself in about a week, hopefully. Thanks again for your clarification.