Advice to those in customer service/sales
- Thread starter Mashup47
- Start date
3qtrsamericano
Bright Spark
Martinr36
MOST VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
Mine said 16-19 when i ordered will be on 20/21 tomorrow, the thing with averages is some will be above the average an others below.I'm liking the sound of that @Martinr36. Will hold you to it!
Just remember statistics is:
"The art of making numbers say what you want them to"
3qtrsamericano
Bright Spark
You mean like the government?
I'm sorry but that is such a set of odd comments to make.
If PCS had said 60 business days not 20, I may well have gone elsewhere. PCS, as a system integrator, offer a highly commoditized product. It's mainly about price but also about time (since time is money).
My impression is that the PCS product is a good one but there are quite a few alternative providers with equivalent track records. The "so many advantanges to buying from PCS" seems rather biased. The next nearest competitor was £50-75 more expensive than PCS for an identical product, with a better warranty, delivered in a similar timescale. So if PCS deliver my machine in 60 days, not 20, that's an additional 2 months. Two months is not worth the small sum in terms of productvity lost. So it's really important, PCS provide an accurate delivery timeframe. Underpromise and overdeliver.
As for the "mental torture of the build wait". Umm, this is just a PC. There is no emotion here, it's just a business transaction. I'm not waiting to see if my dog survived an operation!
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
Unfortunately the facts do not bear you out here I'm afraid. Over the last 12 months, when some components were hard to get hold of, we've had several people waiting patiently over 150 days. Although PCS always build as fast as they can, sometimes we do see many people on here waiting for long(ish) periods. Typically people will modify their build if there is a delay on a particular component, I can't remember the last time somebody cancelled completely just because they were waiting too long.
Waiting time does not seem to be as critical a factor as you suggest.
If you'd been here a tad longer than 3 and a bit weeks you might perhaps know a little more about the many advantages in buying from PCS. Their excellent build quality for example, their open case policy, their no-quibble RMA service, their excellent after sales service, and access to the advice and guidance of many real-world experts on these fora. And that's without mentioning PCS's own 'why buy from us' web page. Many of us on here are repeat PCS customers, that's the best recommendation you can get.
People always have a choice, and since most of us on here don't work for PCS and are not paid by PCS, we're not obliged to 'toe the party line'. My advice to anyone not 100% satisfied with what PCS are offering, and who think they can get a similar or better deal somewhere else, would be to shop somewhere else.
The comment of mine to which you took exception was to point out that PCS build estimates are based on past performance - and past performance is not always a good indicator of future performance. Especially in an environment that is changing, such as that which we're all in at the moment (and have been for well over a year now). The build estimates are not a guarantee and they never have been, they are just a guide. I think most people are smart enough to understand that.
My 60 days comment was to indicate that most purchasers, and this is based on reading posts from people on here for over 8 years, want PCS to tell them the truth. 'Transparency' was a big talking point around a year ago when COVID started to create the worldwide component shortage - that we're still experiencing by the way. Nobody asked for shorter build times, they all asked for 'transparency'. So my point was that if PCS were taking up to 60 days for most builds then they should say so - and most customers would still buy from them.
As for your 'under-promise and over-deliver' comment, you're advocating that PCS should deliberately lie to their customers in order to make themselves look better. Really?
Clearly you haven't spent several weeks tweaking your PCS build, asking questions on here, making changes based on your intended use and advice from the experts, asking what we know about upcoming components and whether you should hold off for another month or two to get some new and better part, building to the point where you're confident that you have exactly what you need at a price you can afford - and then you click Buy.
For you, this PC has already been 'in build' in your mind for weeks, sometimes months. For many younger people on here, this is the most expensive item they have purchased in their lives so far. Everyone who buys from PCS sees clicking 'Buy' as the endpoint in a (sometimes long) ordering process, and the wait for your PC to arrive is frustrating and for some it is mental torture. Again, if you'd been here a while longer you'd have read the numerous posts we get every day from people who are waiting, they do their best to keep each other feeling positive in what seems like an interminable wait.
And as for the dog comment, it's all relative. Your waiting to see whether your dog survived an operation is insignificant when your doctor tells you that you have cancer. I know that because that's already happened to me. When we're talking about computers it's probably best to stick to computers.
3qtrsamericano
Bright Spark
To some extent I blame the Amazon culture. We're so used to getting things asap that it stings when the wait times are in weeks and sometimes months.
I've only been on this forum for a few weeks and TBH, had no clue about component shortages which seem to have been around for the past year or more.
So I suppose we are currently living in a world where that is a reality. I know car manufacturering is impacted as well amongst other industries. And this is just another thing where you just have to shrug your shoulders and say, "It is what it is".
I could have gone down the pre-built road. I'd have a PC but I know I wouldn't be entirely happy with it as it wouldn't be to the exact spec that I want.
If nothing else, I've learnt loads since being here. And I love tinkering with my build (and God knows I have!!!).
Don't get me wrong. I hate having to wait. Especially as I had promised my son that I would have have a PC with MSFS2020 loaded on it by the time he sat his 11+ on 4 September. So I'm disappointed that I've disappointed him. But we both take comfort in the fact that he's now getting a KICK AZZZZ PC which is probably way better than any 10 yr old should have.
So here's to fingers and toes being crossed that the my build doesn't slip too much past the original quoted time of 16-19 days.
Until then, I'll enjoy the forum and hopefully not spend any more £££ on my build! 😂
I've only been on this forum for a few weeks and TBH, had no clue about component shortages which seem to have been around for the past year or more.
So I suppose we are currently living in a world where that is a reality. I know car manufacturering is impacted as well amongst other industries. And this is just another thing where you just have to shrug your shoulders and say, "It is what it is".
I could have gone down the pre-built road. I'd have a PC but I know I wouldn't be entirely happy with it as it wouldn't be to the exact spec that I want.
If nothing else, I've learnt loads since being here. And I love tinkering with my build (and God knows I have!!!).
Don't get me wrong. I hate having to wait. Especially as I had promised my son that I would have have a PC with MSFS2020 loaded on it by the time he sat his 11+ on 4 September. So I'm disappointed that I've disappointed him. But we both take comfort in the fact that he's now getting a KICK AZZZZ PC which is probably way better than any 10 yr old should have.
So here's to fingers and toes being crossed that the my build doesn't slip too much past the original quoted time of 16-19 days.
Until then, I'll enjoy the forum and hopefully not spend any more £££ on my build! 😂
Martinr36
MOST VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
Well said that man, I'm waiting for my 3rd PCS machine to go into build
paulhardman
Member
Exactly this. If it's going to take that long, tell me it's going to take that long. Don't tell me it's 16-19 working days when they know it's not.
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
But this is the whole point of my posting, they don't know! All they do know is how long it's been taking in the recent past, they can't accurately predict what's going to happen in the future - nobody can.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
3qtrsamericano
Bright Spark
A case of demand outstripping supply.
Plus, as people in pre-production are allowed to amend their orders, you could get pipped if someone ahead of you decides to choose a component which you may have selected.
It's obviously not an exact science and current conditions are certainly not helping matters.
Plus, as people in pre-production are allowed to amend their orders, you could get pipped if someone ahead of you decides to choose a component which you may have selected.
It's obviously not an exact science and current conditions are certainly not helping matters.
TonyCarter
VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
I've been waiting 2.5 years for my Z4M to be fixed...due to issues with cancer, covid & shielding, Brexit, and finally BMW parts supply. The original timeframe was a max of 3 months.
But along the same lines as the PCS process, I keep adding to and/or changing bits of the build as I find some tasty mods to add (current one is a supercharger).
Will probably see it some time around Christmas (hopefully 2021).
But along the same lines as the PCS process, I keep adding to and/or changing bits of the build as I find some tasty mods to add (current one is a supercharger).
Will probably see it some time around Christmas (hopefully 2021).
3qtrsamericano
Bright Spark
Z4M is just a lovely machine. Well jealous!
Yikes, I'm off to the 3080 thread to spread nasty rumours, hopefully prevent a few switchovers !
TonyCarter
VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
Those 3080's are made of 11th Gen Intel chips, and the reason for the supply restrictions is due to all the returns they've had to take back to make the 3070Ti's
Rakk hovers over the 'Delete post' button in that thread
This is more then likely true as I was told this Twice" d'not worry Sir we have everything you ordered just not the chasis and as soon as that come's in we will start the build and send the compleat order straght out". Hence I'm a harddrive down 😞 . But I would not go anywhere else to have a latop built as I know of no other company that compare's to PCS.
I totally agree they can't accurately predict but just for arguments sake say: they build 100 systems a day and had 5000 orders, with 1000 processors in stock and 2200 processor's/systems arriving every 30 day's, and staff worked 5 day's aweek(avg 22 work days to a month). that would mean the last 600 system's would not be built until the third month? which is a lot better then a blanket statment of 16-19 day's.
Martinr36
MOST VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
This is from a chat i had earlier today about my build
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I've sat in the sidelines with this one but I've decided to chuck my tuppence worth in, for anything it's worth.
I feel everyone's pain in this, I genuinely do. It's a worldwide thing and nothing to do with PCS though, surely anyone can see this? I don't know anyone offering decent lead times on similar systems to PCS that aren't pre-built and have flaws (my observation and opinion, not fact). I personally wouldn't opt for a PCS next day PC as I would want certain items changed, similar to that offered elsewhere.
It's a really tough situation and I think anyone looking to purchase tech is feeling it right now. A great example is a guy in my work who finally managed to purchase his kids Christmas present around a month ago (PS5). It wasn't for a lack of trying though. I absolutely lucked upon one last week. There's also the car ECU chip controller shortage and various other Chipset shortages. It's there for all to see.
That doesn't quite explain the estimates given though and I would acknowledge that. PCS themselves acknowledge that the estimates are based on a lot of promises that aren't often met from suppliers. They can only give out the information that they have been given and cannot be held responsible for failures in the supply chain. Every single custom PC builder is going through the same pain so it's not some unique scenario witnessed by PCS customers. If anyone genuinely feels that strongly, order 5 PCS from 5 different retailers and rely upon the 14 day money back guarantee with a healthy credit card.... If I honestly felt that strongly, it's probably what I would do.... but I don't.
Down to the scenario with the PCS queue, and the logistical nightmare involved with it.....
If you had to build 100 PCS and your track record was a 99% perfection scale, that would mean you would have 1 issue. Lets say the one issue in those 100 builds was the GPU. That GPU would be rectified, unfortunately, at the cost of someone in the queue.... as the person with the issue was further up the queue. This isn't so bad though, that only affects 1 person per 100.
Ok... now lets order JIT (Just in time) for all the builds, with a healthy buffer stock. There's always going to be a healthy buffer stock with the parts that are readily available.... but what about parts that are difficult to attain (previously CPUs & GPUs, now definitely GPUs on a huge scale). PCS will order 1000s of GPUs, as they become available. The suppliers/manufacturers will give a lead time on those parts. Customers will be given estimates based on those lead times. You will find very much that the receipt of these cards is famine and feast. There will be nothing for long periods of time... and then LOTS received on any one day. With the times where PCS are feasting, orders will be going out the door just as fast as they can build them. At other times where lead times and promises aren't being met, orders will be failing and apologies from PCS will be forthcoming..... through no fault of their own. You could be first in line... and that 1% fault comes through and takes your card.... with the next card in line being a month down the line. This is completely unknown at the time of your purchase so sliding down a slope can happen.
On the contrary.... there have been people, during the feast stages, that have received their build FAR inside the expected lead time. That's purely through luck of the draw and timing based on nothing other than luck. Every single supplier, provider, builder and retailer is falling foul of exactly the same situation. Try buying a 3080 for retail anywhere and see how you get on.
PCS don't sell purely what they have on the shelves. They take order for what they have on the shelves, what they have on back order and what they can confidently front order. Everything else... greyed out. When something isn't greyed out during your order.... you are in the queue for expected stock, but unfortunately the numbers are so thin that one or 2 RMA's or issues can throw ALL of that through a loop.
Everyone is on the same boat, believe me.
Disclaimer - All of the above is my opinion on how I believe the system works, on how I believe the lead time arrangement is handled and how I have experienced JIT and lead time working in my own work experience. Factor in the 1000s of orders handled at any one time and the 100s of systems being built at any one time (check out the PCS factory video) and you will understand the complexity of such an undertaking. If everything was available from all retailers PCS would be absolutely churning out orders in a timeline that could be written in stone. It's the suppliers and their constraints (through no fault of their own) that you are at the mercy of.
I feel everyone's pain in this, I genuinely do. It's a worldwide thing and nothing to do with PCS though, surely anyone can see this? I don't know anyone offering decent lead times on similar systems to PCS that aren't pre-built and have flaws (my observation and opinion, not fact). I personally wouldn't opt for a PCS next day PC as I would want certain items changed, similar to that offered elsewhere.
It's a really tough situation and I think anyone looking to purchase tech is feeling it right now. A great example is a guy in my work who finally managed to purchase his kids Christmas present around a month ago (PS5). It wasn't for a lack of trying though. I absolutely lucked upon one last week. There's also the car ECU chip controller shortage and various other Chipset shortages. It's there for all to see.
That doesn't quite explain the estimates given though and I would acknowledge that. PCS themselves acknowledge that the estimates are based on a lot of promises that aren't often met from suppliers. They can only give out the information that they have been given and cannot be held responsible for failures in the supply chain. Every single custom PC builder is going through the same pain so it's not some unique scenario witnessed by PCS customers. If anyone genuinely feels that strongly, order 5 PCS from 5 different retailers and rely upon the 14 day money back guarantee with a healthy credit card.... If I honestly felt that strongly, it's probably what I would do.... but I don't.
Down to the scenario with the PCS queue, and the logistical nightmare involved with it.....
If you had to build 100 PCS and your track record was a 99% perfection scale, that would mean you would have 1 issue. Lets say the one issue in those 100 builds was the GPU. That GPU would be rectified, unfortunately, at the cost of someone in the queue.... as the person with the issue was further up the queue. This isn't so bad though, that only affects 1 person per 100.
Ok... now lets order JIT (Just in time) for all the builds, with a healthy buffer stock. There's always going to be a healthy buffer stock with the parts that are readily available.... but what about parts that are difficult to attain (previously CPUs & GPUs, now definitely GPUs on a huge scale). PCS will order 1000s of GPUs, as they become available. The suppliers/manufacturers will give a lead time on those parts. Customers will be given estimates based on those lead times. You will find very much that the receipt of these cards is famine and feast. There will be nothing for long periods of time... and then LOTS received on any one day. With the times where PCS are feasting, orders will be going out the door just as fast as they can build them. At other times where lead times and promises aren't being met, orders will be failing and apologies from PCS will be forthcoming..... through no fault of their own. You could be first in line... and that 1% fault comes through and takes your card.... with the next card in line being a month down the line. This is completely unknown at the time of your purchase so sliding down a slope can happen.
On the contrary.... there have been people, during the feast stages, that have received their build FAR inside the expected lead time. That's purely through luck of the draw and timing based on nothing other than luck. Every single supplier, provider, builder and retailer is falling foul of exactly the same situation. Try buying a 3080 for retail anywhere and see how you get on.
PCS don't sell purely what they have on the shelves. They take order for what they have on the shelves, what they have on back order and what they can confidently front order. Everything else... greyed out. When something isn't greyed out during your order.... you are in the queue for expected stock, but unfortunately the numbers are so thin that one or 2 RMA's or issues can throw ALL of that through a loop.
Everyone is on the same boat, believe me.
Disclaimer - All of the above is my opinion on how I believe the system works, on how I believe the lead time arrangement is handled and how I have experienced JIT and lead time working in my own work experience. Factor in the 1000s of orders handled at any one time and the 100s of systems being built at any one time (check out the PCS factory video) and you will understand the complexity of such an undertaking. If everything was available from all retailers PCS would be absolutely churning out orders in a timeline that could be written in stone. It's the suppliers and their constraints (through no fault of their own) that you are at the mercy of.