Advice Needed On Graphic Card(s) For New Computer For Dedicated Photo Editing

[bryboa]

Hi all,

My name is Bryan and I am new to this Forum.

I have put together what I think is a reasonable specification for a high speed photo editing system. Some of the editing software that I use is very "system hungry" especially Nikon Capture NX2, and this really can casuse some untimely system hangups.

In the spec, shown below, I have selected an 2GB Nvidia Geforce GTX460 graphics card. Now this is where I need some help. I have read somewhere that some systems/graphic cards can be configured to use the graphic card memory to handle some of the editing processes directly giving vastly faster image rendering during editing.

Can somebody out there please explain the way that this can be achieved?

I need to drive two high resolution monitors with the ability to simply slide items between the two and to process images on both screens at the same time.

Would I be better off, ie. faster processing, if I specified two seperate graphic cards and if so which ones would be best (fastest) or should I stick with one card that can handle two high res. monitors?

Here is my starting spec, what do you suggest I change if anything?

Case
COOLERMASTER COSMOS 1000 SILVER SILENT CASE (£159)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-950 (3.06GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® P6X58D-E: DDR3, USB 3.0, SATA 6.0GB/s, 3-Way SLI
Memory (RAM)
12GB KINGSTON HYPER-X TRI-DDR3 1600MHz, X.M.P (6 x 2GB KIT)
Graphics Card
2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX460 GDDR5 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
2nd Hard Disk
1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
2nd DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
10x BLU-RAY ROM DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW (£59)
Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)
Power Supply & Case Cooling
CORSAIR 850W PSU (TX850) 80+ ULTRA QUIET (£100)
Processor Cooling
TITAN FENRIR EXTREME DIRECT TOUCH COPPER CPU COOLER (£39)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities
ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB Options
6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
Firewire & Video Editing
1 x IEEE 1394a FIREWIRE PORT ONBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£108)
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 12 working days
Quantity
1

Price: £1,514.00 including VAT and delivery.

I would also like extra USB ports on the front of the case.

My thanks for any input,

Bryan

 

[Gorman]

Nice spec, you GPU your thinking of is the Quadro which supports CUDA.

Heres some links:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/builtforadobepros.html

[video=youtube;FqXQDgVRPoA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqXQDgVRPoA[/video]

[video=youtube;cKU0R31WEyc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKU0R31WEyc[/video]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

One Quadro can drive both monitors. One for around the price of the GTX 460 is FX580, the 2d capabilities of the Quadro will help all photoshop like programs, even if Nikon Capture NX2 does not support CUDA.

 

[Gorman]

also a previous rant on the famalies of GPU's can be found here:

http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forum...ed-before-I-order!&p=7620&viewfull=1#post7620

I will take a moment to spin a quick tale about the evolution of graphics cards which may make this clearer.

Back in the day (early 90's) the dedicated GPU was a 2D chip with a mb or two of dedicated memory, and so things were since the beginning of time.

And then one day in 1996 the gods gave unto us the 3Dfx Voodoo, a standalone 3D chip which did accelerate our 3d games greatly and there was much rejoicing and playing of Quake.

Slowly but surely as the people came to love the smooth lines and complicated models that the dedicated 3D chip gave us it spread throughout the land. However the people grew weary of having to stuff their PC's with a standalone 2D card for desktop work and a seperate dedicated 3D card.

In 1998 the peoples prayers were answered with the arrival of the Voodoo Banshee, a card which sported an adequate 2D accelerator and a beefy 3D accelerator on the same card! This was (give or take a few other cards no one cares about) the birth of the gaming GPU that we know and use today.

The people again rejoiced and there was much playing of Quake 2.

Over time it came to light that these new fangled gaming cards had very strong 3D capabilities but were lacking in the 2D department which made the Autocad and other graphic design people very sad.

As time moved on GPU's took two very different paths, we will use a modern series as a reference here, the Quadro took the path of strong 2D and adequate 3D which made the Autocad people happy and there was much designing of bridges and such. The Geforce series took the path of a strong 3D engine and adequate 2D engine which made the gamers happy and there was much playing of modern warfare etc.

And there we are today.

CUDA is supported in both families and when supported in the software can unlock even more potential by using the GPU for CPU work.

 

[bryboa]

Thanks very much Gorman. You have given me a lot to investigate and find out about.

Thanks again,

Bryan

 

[Sleinous]

The rest of the spec is purrfect, hdd is best bang for buck as is cpu

 

[SteveB]

Hi Bryan,

I have just ordered a pc for the same thing although I'll be using cs5 and lightroom, after reading all sorts and asking the guy's on the forum I came up with the below but its pricey and I have to wait but it should be well worth it


Case
CORSAIR GRAPHITE SERIES™ 600T GAMING CASE (£139)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-950 (3.06GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® P6T7 WS SUPERCOMPUTER: SUPPORTS CUDA TECHNOLOGY
Memory (RAM)
12GB SAMSUNG DDR3 TRI-DDR3 1333MHz (3 x 4GB)
Graphics Card
PNY QUADRO FX3800 1GB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
80GB Intel® X25-M 2.5" SSD (34nm / upto 250MB/sR | 70MB/sW)***SPECIAL***
2nd Hard Disk
1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
10x BLU-RAY RE-WRITER DRIVE, 16x DVD ±R/±RW (£89)
Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)
Power Supply & Case Cooling
CORSAIR 750W PSU (TX750) 80+ ULTRA QUIET (£88)
Processor Cooling
SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE CPU COOLER (£19)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities
ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB Options
6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£108)
Office Software
FREE Microsoft® Office Starter 2010 (Limited functionality Word & Excel)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Monitor
IIYAMA E2271HDS 22" LED WIDESCREEN, HDMI/DVI-D FULL HD 1920x1080 (£149)
DVI Cable
1 x 2 Metre DVI Cable (£5)
Keyboard & Mouse
Logitech® Internet 350 USB Keyboard (£9)
Mouse
Black Logitech® Optical Wheel Mouse USB (£5)
Surge Protection
Belkin 4 Socket 2M Surge Protector with £25,000 Protection! (Special Offer £6)
External Hard Drive
WD My Book Essential 1TB USB 2.0 External Hard Drive WDBAAF0010HBK (£75)
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) (£5)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 12 working days

 

[bryboa]

Hi all,

OK here's the latest.

I called up the tech guy's to discuss my needs and during the conversation the following came to light,

The COOLERMASTER COSMOS 1000 SILVER SILENT CASE that I selected has 4 USB ports on the front panel. However the ASUS® P6X58D-E: DDR3, USB 3.0, SATA 6.0GB/s, 3-Way SLI motherboard does not have sufficient connections to support 4 front panel USB ports, only 2. Now that's a problem for me, I have never had success using outboard USB hubs. I had selected this motherboard for the SATA 6.GB/s because it allowed me to use 1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm) hard drives.

The tech guy suggested that I consider using the ASUS® P6T WS PROFESSIONAL: NEW ERA CORE i7 WORKSTATION motherboard because this will support the 4 USB ports on the front panel. Now comes the problem. This motherboard only supports SATA 3.0GB/s and will therefore not let me use the WD Caviar Black hard drives. So I would use one 1TB WD CAVIAR GREEN WD10EARS, SATA 3 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE and one 2TB WD CAVIAR GREEN WD20EARS, SATA 3 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE.

Now here is my question, bearing in mind that this machine is for photo editing large RAW files, where some rendering processes can take what seems forever to complete on screen and save,

How much difference in performance will I be actually be able to see between the use of the "Black" and "Green" WD hard drives? Which system would you choose?

I would also ask if I would gain any noticable improvment in speed by using an 1280MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX470 GDDR5 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11 instead of the 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX460 GDDR5 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11

Any comments, advice,pointers etc gratefully received and appreciated

Cheers,

Bryan

 

[Gorman]

Hi Bryan, In my opinion you should not be looking at sata 6Gbs functionality as a serious concern unless you are using an SSD drive, normal 7200 rpm mechanical drives simply cannot read fast enough to justify a 6Gbs connection to the PC.

In my eyes its all a bit of marketing smoke and mirrors, so unless you plan on a raptor or SSD / Hybrid SSD drive you are more than safe with a standard SATA2 3Gbs connection.

How much difference in performance will I be actually be able to see between the use of the "Black" and "Green" WD hard drives?

Very little, one is a low power model the other not, i bet you can guess which is which, the clue is the word they are using which has no place near a pc!

I would also ask if I would gain any noticable improvment in speed by using an 1280MB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX470 GDDR5 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11 instead of the 2GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX460 GDDR5 PCI EXPRESS - DirectX® 11

If you are not planning on gaming you should be going for a Quadro FX580 which is about the same price as the 460 but a dedicated 2D card.

 

[Sleinous]

I thought the P6 had 2x internal headers? If so (providing you did not order a 52in1 card reader) then you could use the front 4 usbs. Obviously you cant then make use of the rear paneled dual usb and esata backplate that comes with the mobo (or atleast did with the rampage, i assume does with the p6 too)

Anyway, if youre like me and hate those irrittating hubs. Then...this would be for you:

http://kustompcs.co.uk/acatalog/info_3418.html

i do believe this to be one of the last retailers in the UK to even have any in stock anymroe, although I did signup to one website for an update on when they had mroe in stock and they did email me like 2 weeks after I ordered it from here saying they had some, dno if i still have email so there is possibly still one retailer out there that has some left.

Basically it expands 1 header into 3 + 2 ordinary 2.0 USBs

EDIT: KustomPCs is out of stock now lol.

 

[bryboa]

Hi all,

My thanks to Gorman and Sleinous for your input so far. My apologies for not responding sooner, I have been trying to get my head around achieving the right specification for the build.

On following up your advice and attempting to do some "homework" regarding graphics cards, I went to Nvidia's website and now I am utterly confused !!!!

I need to run two high resolution monitors, minimum of 1920 x 1200 res, that can be individually calibrated and each monitor profile individually saved and implemented. So I need two compatible output connectors on the graphics card and a system/facility that will allow this calibration requirement. On checking through Nvidias site I found the following information, and I quote,

"NVIDIA provides top to bottom graphic solutions for every type of consumer from desktop, mobile and workstation user. NVIDIA manufactures graphic chips however does not manufacture the graphic cards. NVIDIA products are offered in a wide variety of platforms and configurations from several or our add-in board partners and OEM's. These companies sell their graphic cards to consumers through retailers or as part of computer systems sold directly through system builders. Board configurations vary by manufacturer and therefore, multi-monitor support varies by the maker of the card.

Presently, all of our current Geforce and Quadro family of GPU's (Graphics Processing Unit) supports dual monitors. However, in order to support dual monitors, the graphics card must include two ports to allow two monitors to be connected to the PC or Macintosh."

Bearing this in mind, when specifying a build profile using PCS's system configuration system there is no mention as to who manufactures the GeForce graphic cards you select, they simply state Nvidia GeForce. So how do I know what I will be getting if I end up selecting a GeForce card? Ok I can call them, which I have done and I was pointed in the direction of the Geforce GTX460 ( see my original spec) for editing large RAW photo files using a varity of editing software. I was'nt told who makes the card, and with the price differentials available from the different manufacturers, how do I know which card I will actually end up with!! I can see that PCS state that the Quadro cards are PNY Quadro which I am assuming are manufactured by PNY Tecnologies.

Also as far as I can see from Nvidias site, the only stated advantage with Quadro cards over Geforce cards for photo editing is if you use Adobe Photoshop CS5 and even then they don't seem to make any distinction as to the card series used and indicate that any of the cards will use the Adobe accelerated features, and again I quote from Nvidias website,

"Want more? It’s easy - Adobe Photoshop CS5 automatically detects NVIDIA® GeForce® or NVIDIA® Quadro® GPUs to enable these accelerated features."

As I don't like using Adobe Photshop editing software I am still very confused as to which card will give me the best performance with other editing software packages out there.

I can fully see that the Quadro cards are rated as "professional" cards and that GeForce cards are quoted as "gaming" cards. It seems from Nvidia's site that both card families are CUDA enabled, but I don't think that will give me any advantage unless I give in and start using Adobe Photoshop which I do not fancy doing.

So where does that leave me, still very confused.

Gorman, I really appreciate your advice in your earlier replies regarding the Quadro FX580 against the GeForce GTX460, but as I was pointed in the direction of the GeForce GTX460 when I called PCS, could I ask you if you could explain in a bit more detail the advantages of using the Quadro over the GeForce. Would the 2GB of RAM on the GeForce not have an advantage over the 512MB of the Quadro? or does the old adage of "fit as much RAM as you can" not apply with graphic cards.

I really am hoping that I can get my head around this (eventually).

Thanks again for all of the help.

Bryan

 

[PCS]

Hello Bryan

Firstly, your graphics card is more than likely to be Palit. We do not specify what brand of GeForce card we stock because from time to time we may source an alternative brand, if for example there were any constraints on the brand we usually buy.

Both the GTX460 and FX580 will be great cards and both will be more than adequate for photo editing. However, Nvidia manufacture the Quadro chips with professional use in mind (CAD, etc) and these cards are generally better at 2D than 3D, where as the opposite is true of GeForce cards. See Gorman's previous post here: http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forum...ughts-needed-before-I-order!&highlight=quadro

If you're not interested in playing any games, and looking to edit large (100mb+) photos I would recommend the FX580 (and above). Otherwise, stick with the GeForce.

 

[bryboa]

Hi PCS,

My thanks for your reply.

I am not into game playing on a PC. The only time I get involved with games is on a Playstation 3 when my grown up "kids" visit and after a glass of wine or two.

I want to achieve a complete photo editing suite and printing solution for large format printing where I can get a true representation of the colours and contrast etc. of the printed result on screen prior to printing. Ideally the colour bit processing of the PC and the screen calibration need to be very very good. The other sort of programmes that would be installed are DTP and some general Microsoft Office utilities, Word, Excel, Visio etc.

So lets assume that I choose the PNY Quadro route. Which of the following choices would provide the best results, or even which would be overkill for my needs? Lets assume that I use an i7-950 on an Asus workstation motherboard,

1) An PNY QUADRO FX580 512MB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I with 12GB SAMSUNG DDR3 TRI-DDR3 1333MHz (3 x 4GB)

2) An PNY QUADRO FX580 512MB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I with 12GB KINGSTON HYPER-X TRI-DDR3 1600MHz, X.M.P (6 x 2GB KIT)

3) An PNY QUADRO FX580 512MB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I with 24GB SAMSUNG DDR3 TRI-DDR3 1333MHz (6 X 4GB)

4) An PNY QUADRO FX1800 768MB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I with 12GB SAMSUNG DDR3 TRI-DDR3 1333MHz (3 x 4GB)

5) An PNY QUADRO FX1800 768MB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I with 12GB KINGSTON HYPER-X TRI-DDR3 1600MHz, X.M.P (6 x 2GB KIT)


I ask this as numbers 1) and 2) price match at £1578 inc VAT, and 4) and 5) price match at £1813 inc VAT, when matched with the rest of my spec, which is identical in both cases. Number 3) prices out at £1795 Inc VAT, and is £18 cheaper than numbers 4) and 5).

So which GPU and RAM combination would you choose for my intended use?

Thanks again,

Bryan

 

[Sleinous]

#4 and then #1 as 2nd best in my opinion.

 

[Gorman]

Hi Bryan

1) An PNY QUADRO FX580 512MB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I with 12GB SAMSUNG DDR3 TRI-DDR3 1333MHz (3 x 4GB)

Gets my vote, best bang for £.

 

[PCS]

I would also say number 1 or number 4. The rest are overkill and Samsung is the best memory.

 

[bryboa]

Hi folks,

Thanks for being understanding and bearing with me over this spec.

After following your advice and suggestions I have got as far as the specification below. I have chosen the PNY Quadro FX580 graphics card in the first instance because, if it does the job then fine, but if I need something better at a later date then it is not all the world cost wise to upgrade the card.

I am going to phone the tech guys and ask a couple of questions about Blue Ray Drives and adding a thrid 2TB hard drive with Raid 1 between the 2nd and 3rd hard drives, if that is recommended, or even possible.

So what do you think now about the specification and what would you change at this point?


Case: COOLERMASTER COSMOS 1000 SILVER SILENT CASE (£159)
Processor (CPU): Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-950 (3.06GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache
Motherboard: ASUS® P6T WS PROFESSIONAL: NEW ERA CORE i7 WORKSTATION
Memory (RAM): 12GB SAMSUNG DDR3 TRI-DDR3 1333MHz (3 x 4GB)
Graphics Card: PNY QUADRO FX580 512MB GDDR3, CUDA ENABLED - 2 x DP, 1 x DVI-I
2nd Graphics Card: NONE
Memory - 1st Hard Disk: 2TB WD CAVIAR GREEN WD20EARS, SATA 3 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE
2nd Hard Disk: 2TB WD CAVIAR GREEN WD20EARS, SATA 3 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE
RAID: NONE
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive: 24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
2nd DVD/BLU-RAY Drive: NONE
Memory Card Reader: INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)
Power Supply & Case Cooling: CORSAIR 750W PSU (TX750) 80+ ULTRA QUIET (£88)
Processor Cooling: SUPER QUIET 22dBA TRIPLE COPPER HEATPIPE CPU COOLER (£19)
Sound Card: ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities: ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB Options: 4 PORT USB 2.0 INTERNAL PCI CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Modem: NONE, I WILL BE USING BROADBAND
Floppy Disk Drive: NONE
Firewire & Video Editing: NONE
TV Card: NONE
Operating System: Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (£108)
Office Software: NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus: NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE

Build Cost: £1491.00 Inc VAT


My thanks to you all. I guess some of you work for PCS and if the end service is as friendly and efficient as the responses on this Forum then I will be very pleased.

Cheers,

Bryan

 

[Phoenix]

Looks good and you can tell which users work for PCS by their avatars, if it's black and grey with "pc-" going up vertically they work for PCS, it's if something else like mine or Sleinous' it means we're just regular people

 

[Gorman]

This spec at the moment is perfect.

Only consideration would be the case you have chosen is huge and a sort of bragging rights gaming case, you could fit this all in a much smaller space. Maybe the sileo 500 if you want a quiet little box for under a desk.

 

[Sleinous]

Looks good and you can tell which users work for PCS by their avatars, if it's black and grey with "pc-" going up vertically they work for PCS, it's if something else like mine or Sleinous' it means we're just regular people

That'd be it

 

[bryboa]

Hi Gorman.

Looking at the case specs again I think that you are right. It did not register just how deep this case is. I choose it in the first place because it is a very quiet case and is also nice looking with clean lines. The fact that it has 4 USB ports on the front that are angled upwards on the top front edge was also a deciding factor. The Sileo 500 only has two ports on the front. This is heading towards a trade off that I do not really want to make. 4 front ports as a minimum are essential. I have looked at the other available cases but there does not appear to be one available from PCS to meet a smaller size with the front ports.

There is one possibility, and that is "The Stylish Black Trigon Case", but only because I think that the photos on PCS site do not agree with the written detail. This case is quoted as having 2 USB ports on the front left side, but I think that the photos show 4 USB ports. Perhaps you could clear this up for me.

The only other option is if more USB ports could be fitted to the front of the Sileo 500 case in the empty 3.5" bay just above the existing front USB ports. The only problem is that I cannot see on the PCS site any choice for a USB card with remote ports.

Once again your advice and suggestions would really be appreciated.

Cheers,

Bryan