Unexpected PC restarts

Hi, having a strange problem, my PC has started randomly restarting. First here's the specs and it was bought a year ago in April,
Case PCS ALPHA TRION 7622B BLACK CASE
Processor (CPU) AMD FX-6300 Six Core CPU (3.50GHz/8Mb CACHE/AM3+)
Motherboard Gigabyte 990XA-UD3 AM3+ (ATX, DDR3, USB 3.0, 6 GB/s)
Memory (RAM) 4Gb KINGSTON DUAL-DDR3 1600 MHz (1x4Gb) this was changed to 16Gb way before problem started
Graphics Card 2Gb NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 650-DVI, mHDMI, VGA- 3D vision ready
1st Hard Disk 1Tb 3.5" SATA-III 6Gb/s HDD 7200RPM 32Mb CACHE
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive 24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER
Power Supply CORSAIR 450W VS SERIES
Processor Cooling STANDARD AMD CPU COOLER
Sound Card ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (as standard)
Operating System Windows 7 Home
A month or 2 ago the problem started, restarting when it felt the need, it could just be on without me using it. Had a graphics update that wouldn't work but after hubby finally got that installed all went well for a while. Then yesterday it started again! No reason. Had a graphics update for windows 10 so didn't install, then thought what the hell might as well have it. Installed windows 10, updated graphics driver and checked other drivers, all well. Temp seems OK. It's still restarting when it wants and sometimes won't even let me log on until its been left off for a while. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, I am at a loss!

To be honest it was probably a mistake to upgrade a known faulty system to Windows 10. Doing so has really just compounded the problem. I would suggest that you unplug all external devices and do a clean reinstall of Windows 7 or 8/8.1 (whatever came with the PC) and all the original drivers supplied by PCS (always reboot after each driver install if you're told to). Since it was working ok when you got it and that will be the same software platform, it should work ok after the reinstall. You can (and should) run Windows update and install all Important updates, but don't install and Recommended or Driver updates at this time. Don't install any other software, don't plug in any external hardware and don't make any configuration changes.

Try using it in that (stable software) state for a while and see whether it resets.

If it does reset then it's almost certainly a hardware issue and you'll need to call PCS.

If it doesn't reset then it was software or an external hardware device causing the problem. Now you have to proceed slowly and carefully.

First plug in your external devices one at a time, check for a while to see whether it restarts before plugging in the next one. If an external device requires a driver, reboot after the driver install and test for a while to see whether it reboots itself.

Once all the external devices are plugged in and confirmed as safe you should start reinstalling your third party software. Again, install one product at at time and if you're asked to reboot then do so. Test after each install that it's not rebooting before installing the next software product. Yes, this will take time but it's the only way to be sure you're not reinstalling the problem.

Let us know how you get on.

I'm running Windows 10 and whilst it's good it's still a work in progress and I've had a couple of niggly issues, one of which I'm still trying to resolve. It's not as stable as Windows 7/8/8.1 so I wouldn't recommend that anyone upgrades to Windows 10 unless they have a completely normally functioning system.

Thank you, thought I might have to do that! Tedious but necessary I guess, hopefully the darned thing will let me, thank you and I'll give it a go. I am known for making stupid rash decisions when computers are involved
Been thinking this is a lot of work and could potentially take months, just wanted to clarify what went on. A couple of months ago the problem started and I found that a graphics driver was refusing to install. After hubby looked into it he got it installed and the problem stopped. Until the day before windows 10 my graphics driver recommended an update. I refused as it was geared for w10, the day after the forced restarts returned. Therefore I installed w10 as the graphics driver fixed this problem before thinking it might help. Hasn't though. I only have one external hard drive, a printer and a mouse pen connected. Also if I have to restore to factory settings how long is a good time to wait before adding another piece of software? Never had to do this before.

Kelfrid said:

Thank you, thought I might have to do that! Tedious but necessary I guess, hopefully the darned thing will let me, thank you and I'll give it a go. I am known for making stupid rash decisions when computers are involved
Been thinking this is a lot of work and could potentially take months, just wanted to clarify what went on. A couple of months ago the problem started and I found that a graphics driver was refusing to install. After hubby looked into it he got it installed and the problem stopped. Until the day before windows 10 my graphics driver recommended an update. I refused as it was geared for w10, the day after the forced restarts returned. Therefore I installed w10 as the graphics driver fixed this problem before thinking it might help. Hasn't though. I only have one external hard drive, a printer and a mouse pen connected. Also if I have to restore to factory settings how long is a good time to wait before adding another piece of software? Never had to do this before.

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"When you're in a hole, stop digging"

I always found that excellent advice when faced with computer problems.

The first time you noticed the graphics driver failing to install, how was that driver being installed? Do you install drivers found by Windows Update for example? Or did you get a message telling you a new NVIDIA driver was available?

Are you sure it was the driver install that was the problem and not something else (that was also causing the driver install to fail)? What other changes had taken place around that time? Did you install other Windows updates at that time for example?

It's easy to get drawn down an Alice in Wonderland like rabbit hole when the real problem is actually somewhere else. Another good piece of advice I've always kept in mind is "if the problem isn't where you're looking then it must be somewhere else". So be wary of going too far down the rabbit hole, be prepared to come back out and look for something else.

With all that said there does seem to be some sort of graphics related issue and it's entirely possible that it's a hardware fault on the graphics card itself. The Windows 10 upgrade doesn't prove that though, Windows 10 installs on top of Windows 7 (it's an upgrade) so problems in Windows 7 may well be carried over to Windows 10.

The only reliable way to tell whether you have a software or hardware problem is to do a completely clean re installation of Windows 7 and drivers that you know to be reliable. I would strongly recommend you do that in any case now that you have upgraded to Windows 10, because Windows 7 is stable whilst Windows 10 is not (yet). There are two ways to do this:

1. If your PC came with a hidden recovery partition then you can perform a "factory reset" (you may also/instead have been supplied with a DVD from which you can do a factory reset). This will restore your PC to exactly the state it was in on the day you bought it. You WILL lose all your user data doing this, so back it all up first. This will be the best and easiest option because you won't have to install any drivers, they will be included in the factory restore. The PC should work normally after this process.

2. If you don't have a recovery partition then you'll need the original Windows 7 installation DVD. Do a clean install with that (i.e. delete all partitions on the disk, create a single partition the size of the disk and install Windows into that). You WILL lose all your data doing this so, back it up first. Once Windows has installed you will have to install ALL the drivers. These may have been supplied to you on disk(s) but if not you'll have to download them from either the PC manufacturer's website or individually from the various hardware manufacturer's websites. Be sure to get the right driver for your exact hardware and Windows version.

Whichever method you choose, once Windows and all the drivers are installed you will have a ton of Windows updates to do. However, since your problem seems to be pretty reproducible you can save a bit of time by ignoring the updates for now and using the PC for a while to see whether it restarts. You should be able to tell pretty quickly I think whether it's behaving itself or not. Be aware that without all the Windows updates you are exposed to all the security problems they fix, so don't run more than a day or two without installing at least the Important updates.

If the PC resets itself after that then it's almost certainly a hardware problem. Before going down the graphics card rabbit hole though there are other things that could cause your restarting. RAM is the most likely and you can test that. The other possibility is a flaky hard disk, and you can test that too. So if it continues to restart after reinstalling WIndows 7 and all the drivers come back here and we'll tell you how to test your RAM and hard disk.

Hope that helps.

Thank you, that doesn't sound too bad to start with, I haven't really got much on it so not as bad a job as I was expecting. Will proceed with the reset and let you know what happens. Thank you for your patience with me, I'm OK with these machines as long as they work! The graphics updates were coming from NVIDIA, not windows if that makes a difference.

Kelfrid said:

Thank you, that doesn't sound too bad to start with, I haven't really got much on it so not as bad a job as I was expecting. Will proceed with the reset and let you know what happens. Thank you for your patience with me, I'm OK with these machines as long as they work! The graphics updates were coming from NVIDIA, not windows if that makes a difference.

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It's always best to get driver updates from the hardware vendor, so updates coming from NVIDIA is good. The Windows 10 bit may have been a red herring, the driver may also still have been right for your Windows 7 system, I doubt the NVIDIA software would have selected it for you otherwise.

Take the re-installation slowly. There will be a temptation to rush things to get it working again and you have to suppress that urge. One step at a time.

OK finally got around to a reinstall of windows 10 today. Before this a friend checked the RAM and graphics and that was OK, ran a temp gauge for a while to see if it was overheating but all was well with that too. So backed everything up and started. Got the antivirus on straight away and updated the graphics after a couple of hours as it was at a minimum. Left it again for an hour or so then went to click on settings but it crashed again. Guessing this isn't malware as I thought it could be but a hardware issue. How can I pin point this? My next thoughts lean toward a PSU or motherboard....

Kelfrid said:

OK finally got around to a reinstall of windows 10 today. Before this a friend checked the RAM and graphics and that was OK, ran a temp gauge for a while to see if it was overheating but all was well with that too. So backed everything up and started. Got the antivirus on straight away and updated the graphics after a couple of hours as it was at a minimum. Left it again for an hour or so then went to click on settings but it crashed again. Guessing this isn't malware as I thought it could be but a hardware issue. How can I pin point this? My next thoughts lean toward a PSU or motherboard....

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Getting the antivirus on straight away was unwise because it adds another layer of complexity, and a non-Microsoft layer too. When reinstalling for troubleshooting purposes you want to keep the system as basic and simple as possible, you're trying to install a completely clean operating system. By "getting the antivirus on straight away" you are polluting the clean system you're trying to install!

It's was also unwise to install Windows 10. Windows 10 is not yet a fully stable operating system, there are known driver issues on many platforms. Again, you're troubleshooting which means you want a stable operating system to test with. You can't effectively troubleshoot any computer at the moment with Windows 10.

My advice is (and was) to do a clean reinstall of Windows 7, all the latest drivers, all Windows updates (except driver updates from Windows, get those only from PCS or from the hardware vendor's website) and then test it to see whether you get the restarts. Do NOT install any other software nor make any configuration changes to Windows and do not plug in any external hardware. If it restarts randomly in that state it's almost certainly hardware and you'll need to call PCS. If it doesn't restart in that state it was a software, external hardware, or configuration error and you'll need to slowly and carefully plug in your external hardware, testing after each device is connected. Then install all your third party software, one product at a time, testing after each one looking for the restarts. Finally make whatever configuration changes you need to Windows, again one at a time looking for the restart issue.

Yes this will take a long time, but there are no shortcuts in troubleshooting.

Please don't upgrade to Windows 10 until you have identified the source of the restart problem and eliminated it. You want a fully working and stable Windows 7 platform before you even think about upgrading to Windows 10.

Hello again. Did a reinstall of windows 7 and nothing else for a day, was fine for the first day the machine was on but this morning it restarted again. Didn't get to put anything else on it so it was just windows, was going to update windows and put my antivirus on but didn't get that far. Seems to last a bit longer before a restart if I don't have the computer on for a day or two. Guessing it must be a hardware issue....

Kelfrid said:

Hello again. Did a reinstall of windows 7 and nothing else for a day, was fine for the first day the machine was on but this morning it restarted again. Didn't get to put anything else on it so it was just windows, was going to update windows and put my antivirus on but didn't get that far. Seems to last a bit longer before a restart if I don't have the computer on for a day or two. Guessing it must be a hardware issue....

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That does rather sound like hardware. Two things you can check pretty easily are the hard disk and the RAM.

To check the hard disk open a command prompt and enter the command "chkdsk /r" (without the quotes). You'll have to reboot to get the check done. This will check your filesystem for errors and your disk surface for errors and correct any errors it finds. If the problem is so severe that chkdsk /r can't fix it then you'd be best advised to buy a new hard disk.

To check your RAM download Memtest from http://memtest.org. Extract the iso file from the downloaded archive, burn that iso to a CD (or DVD) and then boot that CD. Memtest will start running immediately. Leave it running at least overnight, 24 hours would be better. If any errors are reported at all pull your RAM sticks out and re-run Memtest on each stick on its own.

It would also be worth downloading HWMonitor from http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html and keep a check on your temperatures, it's possible the restarts may be related to high temperatures somewhere.

Hi, managed to do the disc check although my computer crashed during the first one so ran it again. Came back OK so going to try the memory test, waited a few days without using the machine in the hope that it will run the test. Will be back soon to report....

Kelfrid said:

Hi, managed to do the disc check although my computer crashed during the first one so ran it again. Came back OK so going to try the memory test, waited a few days without using the machine in the hope that it will run the test. Will be back soon to report....

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How did it crash? Did it BSOD and if so can you reproduce it and let us know the Stop Code?

Assuming dskchk /r found no errors (you did remember the /r switch?) the RAM is the next thing to test. Try and leave Memtest running as long as you can, it's not a perfect test, especially when the RAM stick is on the border of flaky, so you want as many iterations of the various tests as possible. 24 hours would be a good test, if you find no errors then your RAM is probably ok.

No it didn't do a BSOD, just an instant restart as usual. Tried to get a BSOD on a few of the crashes but it just ignores it and does the restart as usual. Yes did remember the /r switch and it all came back fine.
Will try the memtest next.... Did a windows memory test a few weeks ago and it came back fine.

A faulty PSU can cause this too, Have you checked your event viewer ?

Been looking at the event viewer on and off, found that these restarts produced event ID 41 for kernel power. The events before these critical errors are different every time, no pattern emerges. Did think a faulty PSU as an option. From reading other people's blogs on the same problem was wondering if the voltage of the PSU was inadequate?
Been running the memtest recommended for 1 hour and 20 mins so far so good. Only another 22 and half hours to go....

Well ran the memtest for about 10 hours before my computer crashed. Reported no errors after 2 passes and nearly a third one completed when I checked at about 8.30pm. The event viewer is not reporting why it crashed, probably because it wasn't in windows at the time and it doesn't always catch the problem anyway. Oh the joy! PSU problem?

Kelfrid said:

Well ran the memtest for about 10 hours before my computer crashed. Reported no errors after 2 passes and nearly a third one completed when I checked at about 8.30pm. The event viewer is not reporting why it crashed, probably because it wasn't in windows at the time and it doesn't always catch the problem anyway. Oh the joy! PSU problem?

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If Memtest won't run continuously it's not a RAM problem. PSU is probably next in line.

BTW. The kernel power messages in the event log are red herrings, they're written when Windows doesn't shutdown properly they dn;t actually indicate a power problem.

We have a CORSAIR 650 lying around somewhere, shall I swap it over and see what happens? As far as I know there's no way to test a PSU. Thanks for letting me know about kernel, been pondering that for a while!

Took a while to find the PSU, but swapped over now and will see how it runs. Hopefully this sorts it!

fingers crossed