Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    8,354
    Rep
    12002
    Quote Originally Posted by pwatm View Post
    Hello (sailor?)
    Thanks for the input. Looked at your ideas. Not ignoring, but sometimes one later wishes a few more quid had been spent on a better spec, or better VFM, durability, etc.

    (i) Re-config from M.2 SSD Drive 256GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3100MB/R, 1400MB/W)
    to 128GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2
    Reduces price from £985 to £952 = Saves £33. OK if no loss of performance in my context.
    It depends on how many programs you install. I have a 512GB M.2 SSD in my desktop with a 128GB partition allocated to the C:\ drive. I have a fair bunch of programs installed (inc OpenOffice) and there is over 95GB of free space on there.

    (ii) Reconfig from (RAM) 16GB HyperX IMPACT 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)
    to 8 GB (+ same make/type)
    Reduces price from £985 to £920 = Saves £65. Hmm. Again, OK if no loss of performance in my context.
    Given your stated uses I doubt you'll use all of 8GB of RAM so I don't think you'll miss that additional 8GB.

    How about; Reduce the M2 as per your suggestion, and upgrade the RAM from 16GB HyperX IMPACT 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB) to (eg) 16GB HyperX IMPACT 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1x16Gb)
    New cost (with the 128GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2) = £966.
    First off, I really doubt you'll see any difference with the faster RAM given your stated use. Secondly having only RAM card will prevent you taking advantage of dual channel operation (where two RAM cards are used in parallel to give a 128-bit wide data bus) and that will probably negate any benefit of the faster RAM!

    I'm thinking:-
    (a) that with the OS and the more important, or more frequently accessed, applications stored on the (adequate sized) M2, their loading speeds will be good.
    (b) bigger RAM ensures faster operation of apps.

    PW.
    (a) is absolutely true, and with the SM961 the loading speeds will be awesome not just good.
    (b) more RAM is only better if you can use it, so buying 16GB of RAM now is a good idea if you can afford it but it's not worth breaking the bank for. As an example, I currently have a couple of browsers open with around 50-odd tabs open in each, a big OpenOffice word document, my email client and a couple of smaller utilities open and I'm not even using 4GB of my 16GB of RAM.
    Last edited by ubuysa; 18-02-17 at 15:16.
    I'm a volunteer moderator. I do not work for PCS, so all views are my own and are not necessarily endorsed by PCS.
    If I make changes to your post (or even delete it) it's because in my opinion it breaks the forum rules,
    these can be found at https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forum...xt=1&match=all

  2. #12
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    14,230
    Rep
    9098
    The 128gb SSDs are often slower than their 256gb relatives. e.g.
    128GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2 128GB Up to 3100MB/sR Up to 700MB/sW
    256GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2 256GB Up to 3100MB/sR Up to 1400MB/sW
    This article may help explain why: http://lifehacker.com/opt-for-the-la...boo-1770691500

    Although even the 128gb SM961 would still be faster than similar sata SSDs.

    That said, the 128gb SM961 costs about £77 (the configurator changes its might slightly depending what other components you have configured, but whatever...) and the SM961 256gb seems to cost about £120. So you're already paying 2/3rd the price for a drive that's slower and half the size.

    I am a volunteer moderator - I do not work for PCS, so any views are my own, and do not represent PCS's views.

  3. #13
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    15
    Rep
    0
    Thank you (both) for your inputs, all of which I shall take into consideration. I'm currently absorbing detailed comment from No.1 Son (a network/communications architecture person), and awaiting feedback from a couple of somewhat knowlegable friends. Doubtless I'll seek help here again soon, probably to translate their wisdoms into normal English!

  4. #14
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    8,354
    Rep
    12002
    Just a small point about RAM read/write speeds, it's the read speed that's the key to performance, the write speed has almost no performance impact at all. Think about each operation...

    When some program code issues a memory write instruction the memory controller is given the data to write, the controller typically buffers it and signals that the write has completed (even though the data isn't actually in RAM yet) and the write instruction is then complete as far as the program code (and thus the CPU) are concerned. Thus from the program code and CPU viewpoint a memory write takes no longer than the time to process the memory write instruction and the program can move on to the next instruction, so the memory write speed has almost no impact on performance.

    When some program code issues a memory read, the program (and thus the CPU) can do nothing until the data is in a CPU register. This is why there is a hierarchy of caches between the CPU and the actual RAM, so that the CPU waits the absolute minimum time for the wanted data to become available. Thus the memory read speed has a major impact on performance.

    The only time that write speed has a significant impact is if the program writes and then reads the same data, even then the smart caches and memory controllers today can cope, and the written data can be read from cache or the memory controller buffer even before it's written to RAM. Of course, on those occasions when you have large blocks of RAM writes that exceed the size of the memory controller buffer then write speed does have a performance impact, because the write cannot be signalled as complete until all the blocks are actually in RAM. I suspect this may be a big issue in gaming (although I have no way of knowing) so for gaming performance RAM write speed might be important.
    I'm a volunteer moderator. I do not work for PCS, so all views are my own and are not necessarily endorsed by PCS.
    If I make changes to your post (or even delete it) it's because in my opinion it breaks the forum rules,
    these can be found at https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forum...xt=1&match=all

  5. #15
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    15
    Rep
    0
    ubuysa. Re your latest about RAM read/write speeds.
    (1) No gaming for me either.
    (2) Your logic, summarised = High read speed = Good. High write speed = Not important (to you and I).
    Basing RAM selection on the above; and accepting I'm still encouraged (by No.1 Son) toward 16GB, should I stick with 16GB HyperX IMPACT 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)?
    Or what else could I consider?

    And on another feature - Is the Arctic cement worth the (admittedly small %) extra £.

  6. #16
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    8,354
    Rep
    12002
    Quote Originally Posted by pwatm View Post
    ubuysa. Re your latest about RAM read/write speeds.
    (1) No gaming for me either.
    (2) Your logic, summarised = High read speed = Good. High write speed = Not important (to you and I).
    Basing RAM selection on the above; and accepting I'm still encouraged (by No.1 Son) toward 16GB, should I stick with 16GB HyperX IMPACT 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)?
    Or what else could I consider?

    And on another feature - Is the Arctic cement worth the (admittedly small %) extra £.
    Actually I was having a senior moment last night when I wrote that. I intended to talk about SSD write speeds but, since I was also answering a question about RAM at the same time, I got my wires crossed!

    That said, pretty much everything I said about RAM, applies to an SSD, except even more so. No process is ever waiting for a data write to disk (inc SSD) to complete. It has zero impact on the individual process's performance. It's only significant in terms of throughput, because only one write can be in progress at a time, so the faster you can write the more writes you can do in a given time. The SSD write speed is however of very minor significance compared to the SSD read speed.

    All processes have to wait for a disk read operation to complete, so disk read speeds (inc SSD) are majorly significant and have a huge impact on individual process's performance.

    In the chart that Oussebon showed you, the read speeds are identical - and that's what really matters for an SSD. The faster write speed of the 256GB will improve overall throughput very marginally (and probably so marginally that you won't even notice) but it's the read speed that is critical. (Why are the read and write speeds different? Because a read is essentially passive, you're simply sensing a given state. Whilst a write is active, you have to cause a physical change in the RAM and that takes time).

    As for the benefit of Arctic Extreme paste, laptops are notoriously difficult to cool so anything that gets the heat away from the CPU/GPU quickly is a good thing in my book. As you say, the cost is minimal so I did go for it in my PCS built laptop. I didn't bother in my recent PCS built desktop because I have a big Noctua cooler sitting on top of the CPU!
    Last edited by ubuysa; 19-02-17 at 07:52.
    I'm a volunteer moderator. I do not work for PCS, so all views are my own and are not necessarily endorsed by PCS.
    If I make changes to your post (or even delete it) it's because in my opinion it breaks the forum rules,
    these can be found at https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forum...xt=1&match=all

  7. #17
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    14,230
    Rep
    9098
    The faster write speed of the 256GB will improve overall throughput very marginally (and probably so marginally that you won't even notice) but it's the read speed that is critical.
    Though I gather that photoshop is one of those things that benefits from SSD write speeds as it uses it as a scratch disk. Not that I've used PS myself mind you. Where video editing involves remuxing rather than re-encoding the video, the write speed is obviously an asset there too.

    Storage isn't entirely my thing, but with some sata SSDs I've seen smaller drives with the same quoted "upto" read speeds bench quite a bit slower:
    128-KB-Seq-Read-EVO.png
    http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/samsun...w-32742-5.html
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/7173/s...830.1487358810

    So while the quoted read speed is the same, I'm not sure if the 128gb drives will actually deliver read performance to the same level as the larger ones due to the number and arrangements of the chips. Though I'm not sure if that's such a big factor with 3D V-NAND (the difference was less pronounced with the 850 Pros iirc). Reviews of 128gb Samsung NVMe drives are hard to come by and my technical knowledge is insufficient to guess.
    Last edited by Oussebon; 22-02-17 at 09:41.

    I am a volunteer moderator - I do not work for PCS, so any views are my own, and do not represent PCS's views.

  8. #18
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    15
    Rep
    0
    Again, thank you both for your advice and input. I believe I've understood it correctly. The spec on which I THINK I'm about to settle is below. Where it goes over the top, I hope it represents "...Ha'peth of tar...", and reasonable "future proofing" against seemingly inevitable larger and more demanding OS and apps.
    My longer-standing advisors have said their two-penneth, so unless you respond with further (or repeated) corrections, I'll soon be pressing the "Buy" button.
    (BTW - not using photoshop. And not gaming)

    "Final" (?) spec (re-constructed due to the online one having disappeared – Grr!)
    CORRECTION - "Quote" disappeared but spec reappeared (maybe from cookies). Price increased to £997 :-

    Chassis & Display Cosmos Series: 15.6" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
    Processor (CPU) Intel® Core™ i5 Quad Core Processor 7300HQ (2.5GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo)
    Memory (RAM) 16GB HyperX IMPACT 2133MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)
    Graphics Card NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 940MX - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12
    1st Hard Disk 1TB SLIM SERIAL ATA III 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 128MB CACHE (5,400rpm)
    M.2 SSD Drive 256GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3100MB/R, 1400MB/W)
    External DVD/BLU-RAY Drive 8x Slim USB 2.0 External DVD-RW
    Memory Card Reader Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
    AC Adaptor 1 x 90W AC Adaptor
    Power Cable 1 x 1 Metre Cloverleaf UK Power Cable
    Thermal Paste ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
    Sound Card Intel 2 Channel High Def. Audio + SoundBlaster™ Cinema 3
    Bluetooth & Wireless GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-8265 M.2 (867Mbps, 802.11AC) +BT 4.0
    USB Options 1 x USB 3.0 PORT (Type C) + 2 x USB 3.0 PORTS + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
    Battery Cosmos VI Series 6 Cell Lithium Ion Battery
    Keyboard Language SINGLE COLOUR BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
    Operating System Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
    Operating System Language United Kingdom - English Language
    DVD Recovery Media Windows 10 (64-bit) Home DVD with paper sleeve
    Office Software NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
    Anti-Virus NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
    Browser Firefox™
    Notebook Mouse INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
    Webcam INTEGRATED 1MP HD WEBCAM
    Warranty 3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
    Dead Pixel Guarantee 1 Year Dead Pixel Guarantee Inc. Labour & Carriage Costs
    Delivery STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
    Build Time Standard Build - Approximately 7 to 9 working days
    Pricing Information

    Price (excluding VAT) £820.83 - [Now 830.83]
    Price £985.00 - [Now 997]
    Last edited by pwatm; 22-02-17 at 09:22.

  9. #19
    New Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    15
    Rep
    0

    Cosmos 15.6. Reviewed

    User Review of Cosmos 15.6".

    SUMMARY
    Website = Clear and easy to navigate. The “Configurator” is very effective and useful in aiding defining personal choice.
    Forum contributors = Helpful in fine-tuning one’s selection. (One might speculate they have some hidden motivation for encouraging “up-specing” – but no hard feelings guys.)
    Payment system = Easy to use.
    Online monitoring system, for build, test, despatch and delivery all worked well.
    Delivery = Prompt.
    Packaging = Excellent.
    Just one week (7 days exactly) from ordering to receiving a customised mid/upper-end laptop = Amazing.
    Altogether a very positive experience. Very recommendable.

    Build quality and operation seem good – (Too early to comment on durability. Not done any performance testing)
    Appearance - Business-like.
    Screen colours = A little "washed out"(?) - Maybe some calibration/adjustment is possible?
    Keyboard. Feels fine. Useful backlighting.
    Speed = Lightning-fast (especially compared to the "slug-fast" D530 its replacing!)

    Suggestion – Maybe, in the context of this laptop not having built-in CD/DVD facility, albeit an external one is offered, perhaps the manual, and other software should be provided on USB stick not CD?

  10. #20
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    London
    Posts
    10,134
    Rep
    6059
    Quote Originally Posted by pwatm View Post
    Forum contributors = Helpful in fine-tuning one’s selection. (One might speculate they have some hidden motivation for encouraging “up-specing” – but no hard feelings guys.)
    Ha ha, understandable I guess, but none of us work for PCS, we're just guys and gals who appreciate their systems and most of us have one ourselves. All we care about is the buyer getting the best bang for their buck.


    Quote Originally Posted by pwatm View Post
    Suggestion – Maybe, in the context of this laptop not having built-in CD/DVD facility, albeit an external one is offered, perhaps the manual, and other software should be provided on USB stick not CD?
    Couldn't agree more. Physical discs are dead as far as I'm concerned, usb keys are less cumbersome and more robust.
    LAPTOP: Vortex IV 17", i7 4700MQ, GTX 870m 6Gb, 24Gb Kingston HyperX 1600mHz, 250Gb Samsung Evo 850, 750GB WD Scorpio Black, Zalman NC-3500 Cooler
    DESKTOP: Homemade, Lian Li PC-09WX, Asus Z87 Pro, i7 4770K Stock, Corsair H100i V2, 24Gb Corsair Vengeance Pro 1600MHz Memory, Nvidia GTX 1080 FE OC modded with EVGA hybrid cooler, 500GB Samsung Evo 850 SSD, 2 x 3TB WD Red, Corsair K70 RGB, RAT 7 Mouse, Acer Predator XB281HK 4K GSync 60Hz, Dell S2716DG 1440p G-Sync 144Hz
    Lots of Corsair ML120 Pro fans lighting up the place and some RGB strips!

    I am a volunteer moderator - I do not work for PCS, so any views are my own, and do not represent PCS's views.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBulletin®
© PC Specialist Ltd
All times are GMT. The time now is 06:57.