Please help - gaming laptop - decision time

Hey guys, been going back and forth with this for months now. Checked MSI, ASUS ROG, AORUS, Alienware - several models and builds.

Meanwhile found some "build your own" websites, and after a bit of researching, obviously, PC Specialist came on top for this sort of option.

FYI, i'm not a hardcore gamer, but it is time to finally get a gaming laptop (Desktop isn't really an option with my life style). Don't even play FPS games, but would be nice to be able to play something like CIV VI with everything maxed out for a change (that's why i don't think it's worth going for the GTX 1070). With the sort of games i play, the 1060 would be future proof, probably longer than the laptop will last.

Having said this, the price between these 2 are similar (I don't pay VAT) but with pc specialist i would get a much better SSD and a much better processor, not to mention the customer service. With Alienware, much better chassis and 120Hz display. Again, this is what i'be gathered after much research, but would much rather hear from anyone (and i mean anyone) that could help me make up my mind.

So, now i'm between one Alienware:

Alienware (15 R3) 15.6-Inch Gaming Notebook - (Epic Silver) (Intel Core i7-7700HQ, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD Plus 1 TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1060 6 GB Graphics Card, Windows 10 Home) 120Hz display and GSync (Amazon Insured for 2 years)

Price £1,510.00 including VAT and delivery

And 1 Pc Specialist build:

Chassis & Display
Octane Series: 15.6" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-7700k (4.2GHz) 8MB Cache
FREE VR Game Bundle with select INTEL® CPUs!
FREE Halo Wars 2 with select INTEL® CPUs!
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1, G-SYNC
1st Hard Disk
1TB WD BLACK 2.5" WD10JPLX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 32MB CACHE (7200 rpm)
M.2 SSD Drive
512GB SAMSUNG PM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 2800MB/R, 1600MB/W)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 230W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ WIRELESS-AC 1535 M.2 GAMING 802.11AC + BLUETOOTH 4.1
USB Options
3 x USB 3.0 PORTS, 2 x USB 3.1 PORTS, 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Battery
Octane Series 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (82WH)
Keyboard Language
OCTANE SERIES BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD WITH NUMBER PAD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MP FULL HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Dead Pixel Guarantee
1 Year Dead Pixel Guarantee Inc. Labour & Carriage Costs
Insurance
1 Month Free Laptop Insurance inc. Accidental Damage & Theft
Delivery
2 DAY DELIVERY TO CHANNEL ISLANDS (VAT EXCLUSIVE)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 7 to 9 working days
Quantity
1

Price £1,525.00 including VAT and delivery

It would be easier to make the comparison with like for like, for instance the defiance vs the Alienware you posted. The defiance should be cheaper with similar components. Not sure about the Amazon warranty but the warranty with dell is pretty expensive compare to PCS. Technical support is pretty good with PCS as well. The clevo chassis is not as good as a branded laptop but it is cheaper and you can get more for your money. Having said that, there are more options of laptop manufacturers apart from the ones you posted and to get more for your money you may want to do further investigation on what you can get for your budget.
If it is mainly for occasional gaming I wouldn't bother with the i7-7770k and go with the mobile version of the i7 instead.

With regards to 120hz vs 60hz screens, here's civ 6 at 1080p on desktop GTX 1060s:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Performance_Analysis/Civilization_6/4.html
Having seen how it performs on a GTX 970 with OCed i7s, those numbers sound about right.

I think the Defiance and Octane screens actually go to 75hz as well.

Not an argument against having 120hz as such, but it may mean you won't miss not having one so much. The Defiance and Octane's panels are IPS rather than TN+WVA I believe.

As above there's a good argument for going for the Defiance with its 7700HQ and saving a couple hundred £. That said, there'd be some advantage to the desktop i7 for civ 6: https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Ryzen-7-1800X-Review-Now-and-Zen/Gaming-Performance

If you're someone who's going to sink a couple thousand hours into the game, shaving a few seconds or more off the AIs' turn processing each turn may have value.

http://www.pcgamer.com/the-amd-ryzen-7-review/4/
The 6700HQ/7700HQ aren't on there but they offer measurably lower single and significantly lower multithreaded performance compared to the 7700k due to its much higher frequencies.

keynes said:

It would be easier to make the comparison with like for like, for instance the defiance vs the Alienware you posted. The defiance should be cheaper with similar components. Not sure about the Amazon warranty but the warranty with dell is pretty expensive compare to PCS. Technical support is pretty good with PCS as well. The clevo chassis is not as good as a branded laptop but it is cheaper and you can get more for your money. Having said that, there are more options of laptop manufacturers apart from the ones you posted and to get more for your money you may want to do further investigation on what you can get for your budget.
If it is mainly for occasional gaming I wouldn't bother with the i7-7770k and go with the mobile version of the i7 instead.

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Thank you for replying Keynes.

When i started my search for a laptop, i was considering spending around £2000. Eventually I realized i can get one that suits me 100% for £1500, so quite happy with that. At this point, not really bothered by saving a few hundred pounds on top of that.

Regarding defiance vs Octane, the standard price difference it's not that big (less than £100), i guess it comes down to chassis quality (cooling, materials). I called PCS to find out which Clevo chassis were those and then went to check them. Don't have those links anymore, but I remember something directed me to the Octane instead of the Defiance.

The only differences i see on PCS, is that there are less processor and HDD options on the defiance against the Octane and the battery capacity. But, the 7700k also drains battery a lot faster than either 7700HQ or the 7820HK. So, are you saying the chassis on the Defiance is better?

Amazon warranty would cover accident and breakdown and apparently, despite a few warnings to read the fine print, works really well. So this won't be the decisive factor.

As for the custom build laptop options in the UK, honestly, couldn't find anything as good (and here i include all the reviews i've seen) and cheaper (other sites charge more for dead pixel guarantee, for the same HDD or SSD, delivery, etc) than PCS. But open to suggestions.

I got the point you're making, but you just placed more wood in the fire

Oussebon said:

With regards to 120hz vs 60hz screens, here's civ 6 at 1080p on desktop GTX 1060s:
View attachment 9971
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Performance_Analysis/Civilization_6/4.html
Having seen how it performs on a GTX 970 with OCed i7s, those numbers sound about right.

I think the Defiance and Octane screens actually go to 75hz as well.

Not an argument against having 120hz as such, but it may mean you won't miss not having one so much. The Defiance and Octane's panels are IPS rather than TN+WVA I believe.

As above there's a good argument for going for the Defiance with its 7700HQ and saving a couple hundred £. That said, there'd be some advantage to the desktop i7 for civ 6: https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Ryzen-7-1800X-Review-Now-and-Zen/Gaming-Performance

If you're someone who's going to sink a couple thousand hours into the game, shaving a few seconds or more off the AIs' turn processing each turn may have value.
View attachment 9972
http://www.pcgamer.com/the-amd-ryzen-7-review/4/
The 6700HQ/7700HQ aren't on there but they offer measurably lower single and significantly lower multithreaded performance compared to the 7700k due to its much higher frequencies.

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Oussebon, thanks for replying.

So, regarding panels, there's literally thousands of posts with that discussion (IPS vs TN) and honestly, i don't have a preference after everything i read.

Basically, this should tell you about the difficulty i'm having with this decision.

7700HQ vs 7700k - with their VERY different performance and power consumption
Panel - 3k IPS vs TN 120Hz
Storage - PCS allows me to choose much better HDD and SSD (size, quality and speed)
Sound - Subjectively, it appears people are a lot happier with AW speakers than they are with Octane/Defiance (couldn't find any "professional" comparison between these chassis)
Brand - Been wanting to have a AW for a long time, finally can afford it without breaking a sweat. Having said that, this 15 R3 isn't the prettiest girl in the neighborhood, and i wouldn't really mind having/carrying around a "plain" chassis. I do mind the quality build, that's why I'm not considering the OMEN that Keynes have, as i have read it's all plastic, with hinges that don't inspire too much confidence and with poor sound quality. Could be convinced otherwise.

I do mind the quality build, that's why I'm not considering the OMEN that Keynes have,

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It is plastic but the sound is good and the keyboard and touchpad significantly better than the Vortex IV I bought a few years ago. Can't comment on the quality of the defiance or octane as I don't have one but the main problem for me was how responsive the touchpad is and the cursor moving while i was typing as well as the material of the chassis (plastic but without a finished or laminated)
I was considering an Alienware or defiance before but the poor reviews on customer service and after sales provided by Dell didn't inspire much confidence. I attempted to get a price match for the defiance but still haven't got a reply for my email (sent early February ) so I assume they don't offer it. With student discount I got a pretty good price, 4K panel, gtx 1070, 250gb SSD + 1tb. Not much choice for customisation but so far it has been good.
You can make a better choice if you are able to feel/test a clevo chassis and see for yourself whether it is ideal. You also have the choice to send it back if it does not meet your requirements minus an administration fee. Personally, I would put the quality of the chassis before the price based on my experience.

So, regarding panels, there's literally thousands of posts with that discussion (IPS vs TN) and honestly, i don't have a preference after everything i read.

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My point wasn't that IPS is better than TN so you should get that - my point was that for your intended use there appears to be no benefit to a 120hz panel (unless you like high refresh rate Windows desktop - some people do...). Thus if you go for the 1080p gsync 60-75hz panel of the Defiance/Octane, you're not missing out by not having a higher refresh rate. The IPS is just a bonus.

3k IPS

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The GTX 1060 is going to struggle to run Civ 6 at 3k at the highest settings, so unless the plan is to game at non-native resolution you may want to consider the GTX 1070, or sticking to the 1080p panel with the GTX 1060. I'd previously assumed you'd just be going for the 1080p panel.

(couldn't find any "professional" comparison between these chassis

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You're highly unlikely to find an article reviewing both. Your best bet would be to see if Notebookcheck have done separate reviews of both the Alienware and the two different clevo chassis that the defiance and octane are based on. They'll have the same format and methodology I assume so you can compare that way.

7700HQ vs 7700k - with their VERY different performance and power consumption

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How much civ will you be playing and what else will you be doing with the laptop? Given that Civ games seem to be released only every 5-6 years, even casual gamers can sink hundreds or thousands of hours into each iteration of Civ if it's one of their favourite games. If you think how long the AI's turns are in the mid-late game, the 7700k will give significant returns over the course of the laptop's lifespan, shaving many minutes off the length of each game you play through.

If battery life isn't a critical issue, and you're happy adjusting settings to maximise battery life with the Octane on occasions where you do need longer stretches on battery, the performance might well be worth it. Neither laptop is going to game on battery for very long anyway.

If battery life is critical, the 7700HQ will still offer excellent performance and obviously uses a lot less power.

I'm not sure how the new AW compares to the old one but I had a 17 R3 prior to my Octane. Lets put it this way.... I sent the AW back for a refund.

The Chassis of the AW was a little bit nicer than the Clevo unit, there isn't a lot in it though. The touchpad lighting up was a nice touch if that's your thing, as was the rest of the fancy lighting. It got annoying at night though as I like to have my living room "cosy" so the lighting of the laptop caused glaring. I turned all the lighting off after a while. The material used on the Clevo, IMO, is far superior to the AW. The AW just grew fingerprints all over it, I swear half of them weren't mine and I was the only person that touched it. The chassis had a nice feel to it but man it got marked so easily, it was a nightmare to keep looking presentable. The Clevo is the exact opposite. I don't know what coating they have on the Octane III but it's a miracle worker as far as grease marks are concerned.

IMO there is no way to compare the Octane with the AW, the Octane is in a different league altogether. The Defiance, as suggested, is more the sort of level of the AW. I cannot comment on the Defiance chassis though as I haven't seen one in person.

In your situation I would go with the Defiance over the Octane. There's no real benefit to having the top spec Octane CPU with a lower spec GPU for gaming, it only really makes sense when you "have it all" and even then, you need to be pretty extreme to use it to it's potential (I barely scratch the surface, I'm just an extreme hobbyist techy lol).

Defiance with a 7700HQ and a 1060/1070 GPU is an ideal solution to just about any laptop situation I can think of. In your shoes this would be my choice with the GTX1070 option (If money allows).

Thank you for your feedback Scotster!

The_Scotster said:

IMO there is no way to compare the Octane with the AW, the Octane is in a different league altogether. The Defiance, as suggested, is more the sort of level of the AW. I cannot comment on the Defiance chassis though as I haven't seen one in person.

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So, having the option, between Defiance and Octane, you would go Octane? I can fit the 1070 in the Octane and still be in my comfort zone (price wise), just a matter of tweaking processor, HDD, SSD, etc.

Can't help but notice how so many people seem to be disappointed with AW these days, such a shame, seems their rep came crashing down.

Oussebon said:

I'd previously assumed you'd just be going for the 1080p panel.

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You're right, then i started looking at the defiance 15.6 with 3k option.

Oussebon said:

How much civ will you be playing and what else will you be doing with the laptop?

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Well, again, you know it. Usually thousands of hours on any game i'm a fan of. Just used the CIV example as it's the one i'm losing sleep over atm. Then, lot's of live streaming (football) and watching movies/tv shows.

Oussebon said:

If battery life isn't a critical issue, and you're happy adjusting settings to maximise battery life with the Octane on occasions where you do need longer stretches on battery, the performance might well be worth it.

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Not critical no, most of my laptop usage would be with a power socket nearby, and there's just something about having the top spec CPU, not to show off/brag, just knowing it's there, if you know what i mean.

You're right, then i started looking at the defiance 15.6 with 3k option.

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The I'd strongly recommend you consider the 1070, since the 1060 won't do especially well with Civ at that res, and even worse in other reasonably demanding games that come along over the coming years.

Not critical no, most of my laptop usage would be with a power socket nearby, and there's just something about having the top spec CPU, not to show off/brag, just knowing it's there, if you know what i mean.

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That, combined with the fact you'll be sinking a lot of time into Civ, seems to favour the 7700k to help shave down the AI's turns.

Andrerfd said:

Thank you for your feedback Scotster!



So, having the option, between Defiance and Octane, you would go Octane? I can fit the 1070 in the Octane and still be in my comfort zone (price wise), just a matter of tweaking processor, HDD, SSD, etc.

Can't help but notice how so many people seem to be disappointed with AW these days, such a shame, seems their rep came crashing down.

Click to expand...

I chose the Octane but I guess my usage is a bit of an anomaly, I'm not much of a gamer to be honest... I just like tech toys. I was at the price point where I couldn't live with myself if I went with the mobile CPU over the desktop CPU when it was a viable option.

Now, in order to go for the Octane and make it worthwhile you're going to want to at least consider the GTX1080 IMO, it's a monster of a system. I understand that it's a BIG price hike though. The GTX1070 is definitely the minimum I would suggest.