Windows 10 1809 out

Just ran a manual check for updates on one of my test virtual machines (the one that recently got the still active free Windows 7 - 10 update) just out of interest.

I'm an advocate of not doing in-place updates for the most part but for anyone who is interested, it downloaded and installed the bulk of the update from within Windows Update.

I didn't watch it end-to-end but I believe it did one reboot then continued as though doing any other regular update.

Some of the new features are listed here:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-new-windows-10-version-1809

Tony1044 said:

Just ran a manual check for updates on one of my test virtual machines (the one that recently got the still active free Windows 7 - 10 update) just out of interest.

I'm an advocate of not doing in-place updates for the most part but for anyone who is interested, it downloaded and installed the bulk of the update from within Windows Update.

I didn't watch it end-to-end but I believe it did one reboot then continued as though doing any other regular update.

Some of the new features are listed here:

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-new-windows-10-version-1809

Click to expand...

I’m gonna apply this tonight on my laptop, I’ll postpone my desktop for a few weeks just in case.

I might get this very soon just for the dark file explorer.

Also contains DXR

I only recently got 1709 and have been worried about what 1803 might do to my system, so might as well consolidate all my fears into one easy-to-dread update package. Unfortunately a clean install isn't something I really have time for due to various things that were very complicated to install and configure for my tiny brain.

It's going onto a test VM as I type (clean install). If all is well I'll clean install it on my desktop tomorrow and report back here.

To be honest whilst it's early days, the upgrade on the VM was painless.

And that'd be a Win 7 -> 10 1803 in place -> Win 10 1809 in place

Not that it's my day-to-day used machine so issues may not immediately (or ever) show themselves.

If I am doing any upgrade - in place or fresh, I always take an image first so I can go back easily if there's any issues.

Agree with the above, a VM clean install was smooth.

Edit: The Performance Monitor glitch mentioned here is NOT fixed in this version.

Does any one know if in win10 v1809 disable auto arrange is working again? Microsoft basically got rid of this in Windows 10 v1709, so l reverted back to win 8.1 pro back then, it's a shame a much needed feature is gone.

Their are countless pages on the Internet folk complaining about this, just Google Windows 10 disable auto arrange

Well that went well: https://www.engadget.com/2018/10/06/windows-10-october-update-delete-pulled/

That's a shame Microsoft always mess up on a new release of Windows or an update to an existing version of windows

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, update-in-place is a lottery and this issue looks like a problem with the update-in-place process rather than 1809 itself. The clean install that I did the other day in a VM is performing well and my testing hasn't shown any issues, so I'm going to do a clean install of 1809 on my PC this evening (whilst my wife is out...!).

I take a scheduled disk image every night in any case so my way back is straightforward.

ubuysa said:

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, update-in-place is a lottery and this issue looks like a problem with the update-in-place process rather than 1809 itself. The clean install that I did the other day in a VM is performing well and my testing hasn't shown any issues, so I'm going to do a clean install of 1809 on my PC this evening (whilst my wife is out...!).

I take a scheduled disk image every night in any case so my way back is straightforward.

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Yeah, it's only affecting a handful of people. I did an in place upgrade on my laptop and it didn't affect any of my data.

As I recall, they had a similar issue a couple of releases back.

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, update-in-place is a lottery and this issue looks like a problem with the update-in-place process rather than 1809 itself.

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The problem is, home users don't get much/any say as to when these updates are foisted upon their PC by Windows update. One would need to be ready to spring into action and perform a clean install as soon as the update is released in order to be sure to avoid issues caused by in-place upgrades, since it could come at any moment unannounced.

And then if there are issues with the new patch, once gets treated to those as an early adopter - rather than letting our fellow cannon fodder get mown down by forced updates until MS runs out of ammo.

Well, that's one problem. The other problem is that apparently if an issue doesn't affect enough people in the insider builds, it's not deemed worthy of being looked at, even if the effects could be quite damaging.

Oussebon said:

The problem is, home users don't get much/any say as to when these updates are foisted upon their PC by Windows update. One would need to be ready to spring into action and perform a clean install as soon as the update is released in order to be sure to avoid issues caused by in-place upgrades, since it could come at any moment unannounced.

And then if there are issues with the new patch, once gets treated to those as an early adopter - rather than letting our fellow cannon fodder get mown down by forced updates until MS runs out of ammo.

Well, that's one problem. The other problem is that apparently if an issue doesn't affect enough people in the insider builds, it's not deemed worthy of being looked at, even if the effects could be quite damaging.

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This is a very good point, the problem is (I think) that if Microsoft allow end users to defer upgrades, to be sure they're error free for example, then most users would keep deferring for as long as they possibly could, thus defeating the whole ethos behind keeping everyone up to date. TBH I don't see a way to square that circle.....

Edit. FWIW 1809 was just clean installed on my desktop without issue. Almost all user programs are now back and just a bit of configuration to do and we're all done. No user files affected (nor did I expect any). All good here.

TBH I don't see a way to square that circle.....

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Better testing I suppose - or more paying attention to the genuine and willing guinea pigs using the insider builds. Not that this will catch everything, but it was a reported issue that didn't make the cut for being fixed :/

And if similar issues have happened before as Spydertracks notes, that's really not good enough on MS's part.

Oussebon said:

Better testing I suppose - or more paying attention to the genuine and willing guinea pigs using the insider builds. Not that this will catch everything, but it was a reported issue that didn't make the cut for being fixed :/

And if similar issues have happened before as Spydertracks notes, that's really not good enough on MS's part.

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I wouldn't argue with that, upgrade-in-place is not good enough at all, and frankly it never has been. One can forgive MS for failures upgrading in place from Windows 7/8/8.1, but an upgrade in place from the immediately prior version of Windows 10 shouldn't cause these sorts of problems. I really don't understand why it does, each version of Windows 10 should be less trouble than the last IMO. It's not good.

I've noticed a few things with 1809 already...

1. I can't drag-and-drop from an un-extracted zip file to either Program Files or Program Files (x86) and I'm pretty sure I could in earlier versions? I can from an extracted zip file of course and I can from an un-extracted zip file to the desktop and thence to the program files folders. Curious.

2. This is just a niggle, but I'm using a third party Internet security suite (Comodo) which all works fine, but when I go to Settings > Update & Security > Windows Security > Open Windows Security > Firewall & Network Protection > Manage Providers, the Firewall section shows (correctly) that Comodo Firewall is on but it also shows (in red) that the Windows firewall is off and you may be unprotected which isn't of course true. I turned the Windows firewall off manually as you have to, Defender turns off real time anti-virus by itself (as it always did) and the Anti-Virus section shows (in black) Windows Defender as being off because I'm using another anti-virus engine.

3. The built-in Skype app insists I'm not connected to the Internet. It doesn't appear to be a firewall issue, it's the same if I disable the firewall (I'm using the desktop version instead which works fine). Also curious.

ubuysa said:

I wouldn't argue with that, upgrade-in-place is not good enough at all, and frankly it never has been. One can forgive MS for failures upgrading in place from Windows 7/8/8.1, but an upgrade in place from the immediately prior version of Windows 10 shouldn't cause these sorts of problems. I really don't understand why it does, each version of Windows 10 should be less trouble than the last IMO. It's not good.

I've noticed a few things with 1809 already...

1. I can't drag-and-drop from an un-extracted zip file to either Program Files or Program Files (x86) and I'm pretty sure I could in earlier versions? I can from an extracted zip file of course and I can from an un-extracted zip file to the desktop and thence to the program files folders. Curious.

2. This is just a niggle, but I'm using a third party Internet security suite (Comodo) which all works fine, but when I go to Settings > Update & Security > Windows Security > Open Windows Security > Firewall & Network Protection > Manage Providers, the Firewall section shows (correctly) that Comodo Firewall is on but it also shows (in red) that the Windows firewall is off and you may be unprotected which isn't of course true. I turned the Windows firewall off manually as you have to, Defender turns off real time anti-virus by itself (as it always did) and the Anti-Virus section shows (in black) Windows Defender as being off because I'm using another anti-virus engine.

3. The built-in Skype app insists I'm not connected to the Internet. It doesn't appear to be a firewall issue, it's the same if I disable the firewall (I'm using the desktop version instead which works fine). Also curious.

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I have to agree - 1809 was meant to be less about shiny new stuff and more about stability - especially in the upgrade path.

What is unsettling, is that last time around, the issues with the Intel SSD's that caused the 1803 update to be pulled/delayed were found by the last "ring" on the insider track. This time around, MS decided to bypass that last layer entirely because they were so confident.

On the one hand, i don't believe that end-users should be able to defer updates. I've spent more time over the years sorting out issues for friends where they've done stupid things like crack Windows (XP mainly) and then never been able to download an update that their OS ends up like a sieve from a security perspective, than any other kind of issue.

But...Microsoft really need to sort this rubbish out. It's utterly inexcusable to delete user data during an update or upgrade of any kind.

I'm seeing them (MS) cause lots of issues with their rush to an evergreen (always updated), cloud-based (aka subscription-based) model for their products.

One fairly early victim was Technet. You used to be able to get a Technet subscription by either qualifying to a certain level of MS certification or by paying for it. It was cheap as chips and gave you access to lots of software, but unlike say, MAPS (Microsoft Action Pack Subscription) that I subscribe to and to be fair is also great value for money, you got legacy applications and operating systems.

Importantly this meant you could build test environments where you could emulate real-world upgrades and work out the wrinkles before ever going near a live system.

MS's answer - you don't need them now as we give loads of free trials and online labs (usually the latter needing a subscription of some kind). Which is great and all, but has no legacy components available to download.

The end result - I've definitely seen an uptick in on-premise upgrades causing issues.

And then this drive to the cloud - more than N-2 (current version minus two releases)? Chances are it won't work as expected MS just shrug and say we wont' support it.

They're not the only ones taking this approach either which is annoying.

But...ultimately if you are going to force millions of users to patch and upgrade then you MUST get better at it.

They're testing a cumulative update mechanism for corporations - download one large update rather than multiple smaller ones to the update server and when clients check in, they only get the bits they need.

So far it seems to work well with shorter reboot times when applying the patches but it's still far from seamless.

@ubuysa - In terms of the ZIP file functionality, you're quite right. Can still drag a file out of a zip file straight into another folder here (but this is a corporate 1709 build).

Apparently MS have the tools to recover the lost files and are suggesting anyone with the issue calls them...

...but the support staff don't actually know that they have the tools...

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...es-deleted-by-windows-10-october-2018-update/

Dear lord.

Perhaps Chocolatey and/or OneGet could be the solution to the upgrade minefield? Linux-style package management on Windows is likely to be tricky to achieve, certainly in the short term, but I don't think we're going to see reliable upgrades-in-place unless there is some real standardisation in the way software is delivered, installed, and configured in Windows.

Tony1044 said:

Apparently MS have the tools to recover the lost files and are suggesting anyone with the issue calls them...

...but the support staff don't actually know that they have the tools...

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...es-deleted-by-windows-10-october-2018-update/

Dear lord.

Click to expand...

Ha ha, amazing!!!

Tony1044 said:

Apparently MS have the tools to recover the lost files and are suggesting anyone with the issue calls them...

...but the support staff don't actually know that they have the tools...

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...es-deleted-by-windows-10-october-2018-update/

Dear lord.

SpyderTracks said:

Ha ha, amazing!!!

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Actually I don't think it is amazing, it looks like a classic case of sales and marketing not talking to the technicians at the coal face. I've seen that before, way too many times.......