My potential new PC, What are your thoughts

Hi all,
I have a rig with I7 3770k, Gigabyte Z77X-UP7, 16gb 2400mhz ram and NVIDIA 980ti graphics card and mainly use for gaming and want to get into flight sims at ultra settings. I currently use an ASUS PG279 1440p G-SYNC monitor 165ghz. I may possibly up my monitor for 4k in the future but I had the 4k version of my monitor and took it back to the shop and swapped it out for the 1440p version as the games were great but scaling on desktop and some software was not pleasing to the eye.
I am thinking of getting a new build and have this set up below on my quote.

Custom Liquid Cooling Kit Liquid Series RGB High Kit - EK
Case COOLERMASTER COSMOS C700M TOWER GAMING CASE
Tubing Clear Flexible Tubing - 10/16mm (Nickel Fittings)
Graphics Card Cooling EK FC Nickel & Backplate - For One Graphics Card!
Coolant Colour Mayhems X1 Blue
LED Lighting 50cm RGB LED Strip
Overclocked CPU Overclocked Intel® Core™ i9-9900K Eight Core (3.60GHz @ up to 5.0GHz)
Motherboard ASUS® ROG MAXIMUS XI HERO: ATX, LGA1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs - RGB Ready
Memory (RAM) 16GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR4 3000MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card 11GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready!
1st Hard Disk NOT REQUIRED
2nd Hard Disk 4TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA PRO 3.5", 7200 RPM 128MB CACHE
1st M.2 SSD Drive 1TB SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3400MB/R, 2500MB/W)
Power Supply CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable 1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound Card ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking WIRELESS 802.11N 300Mbps/2.4GHz PCI-E CARD
USB Options MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online
Account
Office Software FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty 3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

This rig is coming in around the 4000 mark and it is very tempting but I want some thoughts on the spec and if any of it is overkill for what I need.

mainly use for gaming and want to get into flight sims at ultra settings.

Click to expand...

but I want some thoughts on the spec and if any of it is overkill for what I need.

Click to expand...

It's vast overkill for what you need. And the liquid series systems are super expensive. The case is massive and very pricey.

Consider instead:

Case
CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 500D SE CASE
Overclocked CPU
Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-9700K Eight Core (3.60GHz @ up to 5.0GHz)
Motherboard
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO: ATX, LG1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs - RGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
11GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready! ()
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Hard Disk
4TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 5400RPM, 256MB CACHE
1[SUP]st[/SUP] M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3400MB/R, 2500MB/W)
​---FREE Assassin's Creed: Odyssey with select SAMSUNG NVMe SSDs!
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H115i PRO Cooler w/ PCS Liquid Series Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
LED Lighting
2x 50cm RGB LED Strip
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 4 to 6 working days
Quantity
1

Price £2,900.00 including VAT and delivery

Unique URL to re-configure : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z370-overclocked/q2vF0ywKJH/

Thanks Oussebon, it certainly gives me food for thought. Do you think it would be worth going for the i9 9900k for the extra £104 or do you think the performance gain is minimal? or is it the temps of the i9 when overclocked?

After more research and more thought I have pretty much decided on the i7 9700k but with a mid range EK water cooling kit. The i9 9900k is not ideal for gaming and the performance is very little over the i7 9700k in gaming terms. The CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 500D SE CASE suggested is much better in size as you pointed out my original choice case is huge which is somewhat disappointing as it looks a superb case.

but with a mid range EK water cooling kit.

Click to expand...

You do understand you're paying like £600-800 for that stuff, right?

During my research on both 9700 and 9900 there were reviews and tests stating the heat that both possessors omitted was high and that keeping them cool under an overclock would take a custom water cooling system and that the corsair H series closed CPU water coolers would struggle. I think that when investing so much into a system the cooling side of things needs to be taken seriously, the mid range EK kit will go into the case you suggested and even though still on the high side concerning price it comes in considerably cheaper that the RGB high kit I originally specced. Looking at your rig it is similar to the one I have currently although I have the 980ti, how does your PC perform with todays games? or do you not game on your PC. Mine is struggling with high settings.

What games is your PC struggling on high settings with exactly?

And when we're talking "high settings" are we actually talking about high settings or every-setting-slider-I-could-find-maxxed-out? / ultra high presets?

There are some games that are poorly optimised / bad console ports that either require £0000s of hardware to run acceptable, or that no amount of money will 'fix' the performance of. But aside from those, I find I'm usually able to maintain 60fps at 1080p most of the time in most titles at high or better settings. e.g. Witcher 3, Deus Ex MD, Assassin's Creed Origins (I have stories to tell about AC Origins' performance...).

During my research on both 9700 and 9900 there were reviews and tests stating the heat that both possessors omitted was high and that keeping them cool under an overclock would take a custom water cooling system and that the corsair H series closed CPU water coolers would struggle.

Click to expand...

Yes. But it depends what one means by 'overclock'. If you're trying to push a 9900k to 5.3GHz, obviously you're going to want custom liquid cooling.

But PCS's systems don't have those levels of overclocks, they have overclocks on all cores that are generally within or very close to single-core turbo (less, in the case of the 9900k). These are pretty modest overclocks.

I have to say if I were buying a 9900k I would probably not overclock it. In your research you'll have doubtless seen Gigabyte's comment:

As you can tell from the last screenshots, the CPU temperature of the i9-9900k is quite high. This is something that we've noticed on almost all the processors. For this reason we suggest you to use a custom water-cooling and adjust the TjMAX Temperature to 110°C
https://www.techpowerup.com/248595/...rs-will-run-hot-even-with-custom-watercooling

Click to expand...

i.e. even custom loop cooling won't be enough to tame temps and if you want to avoid thermal throttling you need to increase the CPU's 'temperature safety limit'. Which I gotta say, I'd not do on a £600 CPU.

Note that the build I suggested had a 9700k, not the 9900k. Because:

The overclocking experience with our Core i9-9700K retail sample was similar to the i9-9900K we reviewed last week. With air cooling, overclocking is held back by temperatures despite the soldered IHS. We could set a voltage offset of +50 mV, on air while staying outside of thermal throttling, which resulted in a stable clock of 5.0 GHz on all cores; 5.1 GHz was a little bit unstable, and we couldn't bump the voltage any further without running into thermal throttling.


Using a 240 mm all-in-one watercooling unit, temperatures were no longer a problem, and we could dial up the voltage. We picked +150 mV for this scenario as it's a reasonable increase that won't harm the lifetime of your processor.


Here, we reached a completely stable 5.1 GHz on all cores (even with +100 mV). While the system booted fine at 5.2 GHz, it had a tendency to crash when heavily loaded no matter the voltage (we tried up to +250 mV), so we settled for 5.1 GHz as our stable overclock, and will include that overclock in all performance comparisons.


https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Intel/Core_i7_9700K/18.html

Click to expand...

This is the system I specced above, but with a 9900k and the mid-series liquid cooling: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z370-liquid/4scWBRsUCR/
You're spending £500 more on going from an i7 9700k to an i9 9900k - i.e. you are spending £500 for hyperthreading.
And you may likely end up with a slower CPU (remember the 9900k is only upto 5GHz - and Gigabyte's advice of having to set the thermal limit higher on custom cooling to achieve that is sobering to say the least).

This is not a good way to futureproof. The better way to futureproof is to save £500 and replace the CPU/motherboard in a few years when something even more powerful that won't burn your house down is available.

And remember how tiny the performance differences are, especially at at 1440p and 4k, between the 9700k (which is more than adequately cooled with an AIO cooler at 5GHz, silicon lottery notwithstanding) and the 9900k (which is likely to be a furnace).

Remember too that custom liquid cooling needs periodic maintenance including draining, flushing and refilling the system. PCS do sell the maintenance service I believe, which last time I saw a quote was £140 which they recommend every 2 years - though I gather enthusiasts who do it at home might do it every 6 months. Also note future upgrades are more complex and expensive due to needing appropriate blocks.

Thanks Oussebon, your advice is much appreciated. I think I will have a look at AMD alternative or even 8th gen intel, it may be that I go ahead and order the revised rig (the one you also specced with a mid EK kit is pretty much my revised version) even though it needs a 2 yearly maintenance I am pretty confident of performing this myself, my current rig was built my myself and even though it was interesting and fun there were thoughts on how I get around trouble shooting difficulties without having other parts to swap out so that is why I am going with PCS for peace of mind.

In terms of games the Witcher 3 when on a horse is getting me around 19 FPS with settings variable but I want a rig I pay a lot of money for to give me the best possible visuals. I recently installed X Plane 11 and on reasonably high settings it was running at a very choppy 11 FPS which prompted me to think of a new rig. I must admit I do console game but this is for the community of friends that have affordable consoles and is fun playing games with people I actually know, I also used to use my PC for first person shooters until I got totally fed up with hackers, consoles have hackers but I find it is a better matched playing field, PC first person shooters are just terrible for hackers and as such I find the COD community is shrinking.

I want my new rig for flight sims and beautiful graphics in future games.

In terms of games the Witcher 3 when on a horse is getting me around 19 FPS with settings variable

Click to expand...

Well. Something's not right there. A 980 ti ought to be pulling more than 19 FPS at 1440p


Obviously "Your Mileage May Vary" and all that. And Hairworks is off obviously. But still. That's not 19fps... that's ~3 times the performance you're getting.
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/EVGA/GeForce_RTX_2070_Black/28.html

My 970 was generally pulling 60fps or the high-mid 50s sometimes with high-ultra settings. And I don't have gsync like you do to smooth it out either.

I think I will have a look at AMD alternative

Click to expand...

I do honestly think the AMD R7 2700x is the best-buy right now. The performance will be almost indistinguishable at 1440p and 4k versus an i9, and it's hundreds and hundreds of £ cheaper - the savings being the only real way to futureproof, with the current offerings. Plus likely Zen 2 support.

After a lot of thought and careful consideration I have got the specifications of my rig down to this

Case
CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 500D SE CASE

Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Eight Core Processor i7-9700K (3.6GHz) 12MB Cache
FREE Call of Duty: Black Ops 4 & More w/ select Intel CPUs!

Motherboard
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS PRO: ATX, LG1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs - RGB Ready

Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 8GB)

Graphics Card
11GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready! (Pre-Order Only)

1st Hard Disk
3TB SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 64MB CACHE

1st M.2 SSD Drive
500GB SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3400MB/R, 2300MB/W)

FREE Assassin's Creed: Odyssey with select SAMSUNG NVMe SSDs!

Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET

Processor Cooling
Corsair H115i PRO Cooler w/ PCS Liquid Series Ultra Quiet Fans

Thermal Paste
COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND

LED Lighting
2x 50cm RGB LED Strip

Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)

Wireless/Wired Networking
WIRELESS 802.11N 300Mbps/2.4GHz PCI-E CARD

3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)

£2,796.00 including VAT and Delivery


I have looked into the water cooling aspect and I am still not decided if this is the way to go given the maintenance required but I have specced up a rig exactly the same as the one above with a mid EK kit and graphics cooling option and it is £349 on top of the price.

I do like the thought of graphics cooling especially when under load in hot temperatures like we had this summer. My thoughts are also with the motherboard, what are the benefits of the master version of the chosen board and is it worth going for ASUS Maximus Hero XI?

So, I am still undecided and have contacted PCS for advice and spoke to a good guy who was not trying to get me to spend money on EK kit and gave me his opinion on the cooling options which again left me wondering what to do. I can afford the water cooling but do I need the maintenance hassles and is it worth it, does the all in one solution really give me enough cooling on an overclock and will the graphics card be really loud under load with an all in one?

My other thoughts are also with the motherboard, what are the benefits of the master version of the chosen board and is it worth going for ASUS Maximus Hero XI?

Click to expand...

If you don't know the answers to that, they're probably not for you.

Not being glib, it's that they have various 'high end' options which are unlikely to be relevant to anyone who isn't specifically in the market for them. e.g. the Hero mobos usually have an LN2 mode but I assume you're not going to use exotic cooling.

There are obviously some feature differences as there are between any other mobos. e.g. Aorus Master has wifi built in, Z390-E has wifi, Hero does not. And so on. Z390-E does have USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C for the front, while the Aorus Pro has USb 3.1 Gen 1 Type C connector for the front (both Have Gen 2 type C at the back). If I recall correctly. So if that case has USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C at the front you may wish to get the Z390-E to take full advantage of that. Although as you may not have any USB Type C devices let alone 3.1 Gen 2 you may not feel it worth the extra £50 or whatever the difference is since you have a port of that kind at the back anyway.

and it is £349 on top of the price.

Click to expand...

NB: the pre-overclocked CPUs are ~£30 cheaper instead of the usual ~£10 more expensive than stock speed CPUs...: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z370-overclocked/QQD!xA4kz2/
And I'd expect the 9700k's thermals at upto 5GHz to be fine. But even if you removed the OC on receipt that's still £30 savings.

can afford the water cooling but do I need the maintenance hassles and is it worth it, does the all in one solution really give me enough cooling on an overclock and will the graphics card be really loud under load?

Click to expand...

For me, £350 (£380 with the extra saving noted above) would buy me a 1TB SSD (and thereby more laziness in swapping games between drives / more room for modded games). Maybe the mobo upgrade to the Z390-E if I wanted the extra bells and whistles / wifi / bluetooth. And/or a weekend away.

The GPU will naturally be more audible under load with a regular air cooler than full custom water cooling. But if you wanted to really max out the quiet, you'd probably be going for a different case and intending to customise fans yourself on receipt, etc. The noise shouldn't be an issue ultimately for most people, or else hardly anyone would use the cards.

You could ask PCS exactly what model of RTX 2080 ti they're using and then look up reviews.

Or, order the system without a GPU and buy your own one that you like the look and price of and that does relatively well in reviews for noise

Thanks for the reply Oussebon. I have now decided on going with an all in one cooler and up the 500GB M.2 to 1TB as I originally wanted, dropping to 500Gb saved around £120 but I can now up it to 1TB.

I have seen the 150i cooler which PCS do not have as an option in reviews and I would much prefer that with the bigger rad but the 115i should be enough, I will contact PCS tomorrow and ask a few more questions before going ahead with my order. They did tell me that the 2080ti is 'trickling' through at around 20 per week at the moment so I want to get in the queue so I can have my build by Xmas, they estimate around 3 weeks at current rates. I am opting for the ASUS dual version of the 2080ti which has a free ASUS ROG Pugio mouse and sheath mousepad which is a good deal and I wanted the mouse anyway, albeit the RGB version which I will ask PCS what version it is when I call them tomorrow. The motherboard I have decided on is the ASUS STRIX Z390-E based on what you mentioned about different options and I needed to pick one for the build and the ASUS was the one that best fits my needs.

Thanks Oussebon, this has been quite a challenge to get the right system and with your help I have narrowed it down to a rig I think is best for me and saved me about £1000 in the process from my original spec so I want to thank you very much for your informative advice. I have so many rigs in my saved quotes with different revisions and nearly plunged for the Ryzen but even with your recommendations I still want to stick with intel.
I will keep you informed on the next phase and my thoughts on the build when I receive it.

I was getting ready to warn you right off the Asus GPU as they are always, but always priced with a £200 premium for no extra performance and exist to tip your hard earned money right down Asus's greedy face.

But in this case it's only £37 more and with the bundled items sounds like a good deal. You could have knocked me down with a feather. So good spot

The Z390-E does sound like a good choice, and while expensive a lot of its features actually have a role in your build, so that's great.

As for the cooler, the H115 will be more than fine. If you're very keen on the other one you can always ask PCS. Note:

Gimpet said:

If you contact us directly via email we can look into getting components in that aren't in our current catalogue, however this is a case-by-case service and we can never guarantee that we will be able to do this.

Click to expand...

https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?57653-Nzxt-440&p=406883&viewfull=1#post406883

The 500D should fit a 360mm radiator up front I think.

The ASUS Dual 2080ti with the bundled items really made me happy, I do agree with you on the extremely pricier versions of GPU's with slighter better speeds than can easily be achieved with a small overclock on a standard card but in this case the price difference was not too bad.

I have been using a Logitech G3 mouse for years now and being a left hander it has been a great mouse. I only wished I purchased 3 of them at the time as it is now very beaten up and in need of replacing but after trying so many ambidextrous mice from different makers I could not get on with them and stuck with the G3. The Pugio seems like the answer to my prayers and seeing it bundled free is all the more pleasing.

I will ask PCS for the 150i, they do seem really good at sourcing parts not listed and are only too happy to help so if it does go into the case I will pay the difference.

My final build configuration (subject to change for a Corsair H150i cooler which is not listed but will be requested via phone call)

Case
CORSAIR OBSIDIAN SERIES™ 500D SE CASE

Overclocked CPU
Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-9700K Eight Core (3.60GHz @ up to 5.0GHz)

Motherboard
ASUS® ROG STRIX Z390-E GAMING: ATX, LGA1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs, WIFI - RGB Ready

Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 8GB)

Graphics Card
11GB ASUS DUAL GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti - HDMI, DP ()
FREE ASUS ROG Pugio Mouse + Sheath Mousepad w/ Select PBA Systems

1st Hard Disk
3TB SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 64MB CACHE

1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3400MB/R, 2500MB/W)
FREE Assassin's Creed: Odyssey with select SAMSUNG NVMe SSDs!

Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET

Cooler
Corsair H115i PRO Cooler w/ PCS Liquid Series Ultra Quiet Fans

3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery

Price £2,952.00 including VAT and Delivery

Unique URL to re-configure : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z370-overclocked/fXQhG!vd6C/

Just a quick update. I contacted PCS and they are supplying the Corsair 150i AIO cooler for an extra £34 on top of what I have ordered so that has pleased me.

PC is in the pre-production phase which probably means it is waiting for the 2080ti in the main which is slowly trickling through.

Now looking for an RGB gaming keyboard to compliment my pending set up, ASUS flare looks a good, albeit expensive option.

Pre-production is the longest stage for all builds and just means "We got your order, we are building the 500 (or whatever) outstanding orders that came ahead of yours first".

PCS haven't always been 100% on the ball with letting people know about stock delays, so if it goes much past the estimated build time you can always give them a ring to ask after the 2080 ti.

Very good to hear about the H150i. And interesting as we don't often hear about non-configurator components being used

FYI my order went through quite fast and I ordered a few working days before you. There was a delay waiting for RAM, but PCS emailed to let me know. The PC would be here tomorrow (8 working days inc delivery) but I'm away and had to delay the delivery. So far, very good communication and a speedy build.

Update.....Received my new PC today and even though I have a faulty storage drive on the whole I am very pleased. My 4tb secondary failed but PCS are sending a new one tomorrow which I will fit myself, I put a different hard drive in without any failure so it is deffo the hard drive. 2 weeks and 1 day from order to delivery and a superb build with tidy cable management.