Obsidian tools for clevo. (Driver updater, fan control and control station)

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Hi folks,
Does anyone know if PCS will Partner with Obsidian ?

https://code.obsidian-pc.com/clevo-software/ . I know they are a rival, but it seems pretty cool.
But I think it costs 20 or so.

Do you think its worth it guys?

I see stuff on NBR all the time.


If it was a fiver £5 from PCS I would be very happy.

PS
Mods, I understand if you delete this thread, as I understand they are a rival. i am not sure of the etiquette on this board.
 

Tony1044

Prolific Poster
Nope!

Wouldn't touch any "driver updater" software with a barge pole.

I'm yet to see one not cause issues down the line - and that's being generous. Most are utter trash that do more harm than good.
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Nope!

Wouldn't touch any "driver updater" software with a barge pole.

I'm yet to see one not cause issues down the line - and that's being generous. Most are utter trash that do more harm than good.

I’d have to agree wholeheartedly. This is just a standard 3rd party bloateare app, PCS wouldn’t affiliate with anything like this as it’s not Clevo.

That doesn’t stop you from buying it, but I’d highly advise against it.
 

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
Looking at the four products they offer on their website...

Fan Control - this seem to be a tool to allow you to overheat your laptop and thus shorten it's life. This tool allows the user to reduce the fan speed so it's not as noisy when under different load levels. Laptops are hard to cool because of the limited air volume inside, so if the fan comes on because a temperature threshold has been exceeded then you want the fan moving as much air as it can to reduce the temps as quickly as it can.

Driver Updater - just no. Never, ever, run driver updater tools. Drivers don't need regular updating and certainly not where drivers are '...downloaded from our server...'.

Control station - power profiles you can manage already, and '...CPU tuning, and Windows tuning...' tools are largely snake-oil and occasionally dangerous.

Keyboardled - this would be in my top ten list for totally pointless software. In any case, can you not do this already with the Clevo Control Centre?
 
I understand your concerns.
I have used throttlestop for the heat issues.

It did seem to help.

The updater tool use to be free and was very handy.
Some other clevo providers have partnered with the guy behind it. He works for obsidian that are a little bit like PCS but smaller and based in the fictional country of Portugal (It may exist lol).

But there is a lot of chat about it here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-drivers-update-utility-by-obsidian-pc.801464/
The guys on NBR and toms hardware seem pretty genuine about this app.

But, I would rather have PCSoffically confirm it.
He does do some sort of licence for suppliers.

I also know at least one Hardcore gamer who swears by it.
 

aleval

Member
I understand your concerns.
I have used throttlestop for the heat issues.

It did seem to help.

The updater tool use to be free and was very handy.
Some other clevo providers have partnered with the guy behind it. He works for obsidian that are a little bit like PCS but smaller and based in the fictional country of Portugal (It may exist lol).

But there is a lot of chat about it here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-drivers-update-utility-by-obsidian-pc.801464/
The guys on NBR and toms hardware seem pretty genuine about this app.

But, I would rather have PCSoffically confirm it.
He does do some sort of licence for suppliers.

I also know at least one Hardcore gamer who swears by it.

Looking at the four products they offer on their website...

Fan Control - this seem to be a tool to allow you to overheat your laptop and thus shorten it's life. This tool allows the user to reduce the fan speed so it's not as noisy when under different load levels. Laptops are hard to cool because of the limited air volume inside, so if the fan comes on because a temperature threshold has been exceeded then you want the fan moving as much air as it can to reduce the temps as quickly as it can.

Driver Updater - just no. Never, ever, run driver updater tools. Drivers don't need regular updating and certainly not where drivers are '...downloaded from our server...'.

Control station - power profiles you can manage already, and '...CPU tuning, and Windows tuning...' tools are largely snake-oil and occasionally dangerous.

Keyboardled - this would be in my top ten list for totally pointless software. In any case, can you not do this already with the Clevo Control Centre?

Or for someone that's actually used that piece of software, it's more like this:

Fan Control - Allows you to tweak the fan curve to run cooler than the stock profiles used by Clevo (so y'know, the exact opposite of what you said) that can and will ramp up to 100%...

Driver Updater - Because not everyone's ready and/or willing to keep an eye out on the drivers that do in fact need to be updated regularly to ensure peak performance... Or, y'now, to quickly grab the correct drivers for your machine ie GPU or WiFi (the latter, because only someone that hasn't lived through the Killer 1535 and Intel 7265 fiascos will say that driver updates are pointless), because the OEM drivers supplied by PCS were old by the time the device was shipped. Plus, the "From our server" part made me chuckle, because the drivers are the exact same ones (and digitally signed to show that they haven't been tampered with) as those provided on the various vendors' download pages. Honestly,for me the app pays for itself (though I got it cheaper than the current 20 quid per license) every time we do an OS install on the four clevos we've got at home (one bought through PCS, rest via work) .

Control Station - Basically a launcher for ^ + a newbie friendly way of *gasp* doing the same stuff you're already doing with Throttlestop and the like (in fact, the "Scary snake oil" that you're talking about are Throttlestop or Intel XTU, which are what I'd say bloody necessary for a gaming laptop), disable the god-awful keyboard/mouse hotkey installed with CCC and which passed the same "strenuous" QA testing as Windows 1809, judging by the countless threads online about random BSODs traced to those same hotkey filters.

KeyboardLED - It controls your keyboard backlight without the craptacular Flexikey bloat, which installs those "fantastic" keyboard and mouse filters I've vented 'bout above.

So in summary - these Laptop tools duplicate and extend the basic functionality of Clevo's Control Center and the devs at least try to listen to their customers and bake new functionality in those apps.... for a price, which I honestly don't think most people can justify (45 for the Fan app and 20 for the driver app is just... too much, tbh)
 
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ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
Or for someone that's actually used that piece of software, it's more like this:

Fan Control - Allows you to tweak the fan curve to run cooler than the stock profiles used by Clevo (so y'know, the exact opposite of what you said) that can and will ramp up to 100%...

Ae you saying that the Clevo profiles don't allow the fan to run at 100%? I'll say again, laptops are notoriously hard to cool, so if you need the fan you need it shifting as much air as it can, anything less is sacrificing cooling for noise.

Driver Updater - Because not everyone's ready and/or willing to keep an eye out on the drivers that do in fact need to be updated regularly to ensure peak performance... Or, y'now, to quickly grab the correct drivers for your machine ie GPU or WiFi (the latter, because only someone that hasn't lived through the Killer 1535 and Intel 7265 fiascos will say that driver updates are pointless), because the OEM drivers supplied by PCS were old by the time the device was shipped. Plus, the "From our server" part made me chuckle, because the drivers are the exact same ones (and digitally signed to show that they haven't been tampered with) as those provided on the various vendors' download pages.

Drivers do not need updating in the same was that other 'software' does. Drivers aren't 'software' in any case. Old drivers, even ancient drivers, are perfectly fine as long as they do the job they were written for. They only need updating if you have a problem with the device, or if you need whatever new functionality is in the new driver code. Drivers are kernel mode code and should only be sourced from the device vendor, Microsoft, PCS, or the motherboard vendor. It's not hard finding updated drivers, when (and if) you need them.

Control Station - Basically a launcher for ^ + a newbie friendly way of *gasp* doing the same stuff you're already doing with Throttlestop and the like (in fact, the "Scary snake oil" that you're talking about are Throttlestop or Intel XTU, which are what I'd say bloody necessary for a gaming laptop), disable the god-awful keyboard/mouse hotkey installed with CCC and which passed the same "strenuous" QA testing as Windows 1809, judging by the countless threads online about random BSODs traced to those same hotkey filters.

I'll concede that there may be performance features that I wasn't aware of that are useful, but their website also talks about 'Windows tuning and fixes' and those things should generally be avoided - because they are mostly snake oil.

KeyboardLED - It controls your keyboard backlight without the craptacular Flexikey bloat, which installs those "fantastic" keyboard and mouse filters I've vented 'bout above.

Vent is the right word. So you prefer this bloatware to the Clevo bloatware?
 

aleval

Member
Ae you saying that the Clevo profiles don't allow the fan to run at 100%? I'll say again, laptops are notoriously hard to cool, so if you need the fan you need it shifting as much air as it can, anything less is sacrificing cooling for noise.



Drivers do not need updating in the same was that other 'software' does. Drivers aren't 'software' in any case. Old drivers, even ancient drivers, are perfectly fine as long as they do the job they were written for. They only need updating if you have a problem with the device, or if you need whatever new functionality is in the new driver code. Drivers are kernel mode code and should only be sourced from the device vendor, Microsoft, PCS, or the motherboard vendor. It's not hard finding updated drivers, when (and if) you need them.



I'll concede that there may be performance features that I wasn't aware of that are useful, but their website also talks about 'Windows tuning and fixes' and those things should generally be avoided - because they are mostly snake oil.



Vent is the right word. So you prefer this bloatware to the Clevo bloatware?
Right, let's try this again from the top (By Jebus, I'm getting PTSD flashbacks from before I left customer support for D**L)

So, by order:
Clevo's basic EC profile ramps up to 80%, not a 100% in automatic mode (aka what 90+% of people use) with the other EC options straddling the line between inadequate and just plain lolwrong. You stated in your initial dissing of the app you've clearly never used that it's "this seem to be a tool to allow you to overheat your laptop and thus shorten it's life." , whereas I corrected you by pointing out what it IS. Yes, people can reasonably use the app to prioritize noise over heat, or heat vs noise or even better - actually roll their own solution that they WANT to use on THEIR piece of kit. Most users that I know that USE that app do so to tweak their fan curve to extend the serviceable life of their device, because as shipped most laptops regardless of OEM are horrible in terms of potential thermal performance (we'll expand that soon) and tend to run hot enough to start bouncing off the thermal limits and force throttling.

Drivers do not need updating - again, we're talking in vague general terms, because facts are not in vogue these days. Drivers are subject to change and improvement with the GPU ones being the easiest to show example, though EVERYTHING matters. Or perhaps you're saying that people that got the craptastic Broadcom-based Killer chips from yesteryear should've stayed with the broken initial versions that shipped with so many premium devices? Or perhaps that people ought to stick with the as-shipped version of the Intel Management Engine on their rigs, y'know, the one that's a serious security risk? Or let's go down all the way to the microcode in the CPUs? Perhaps you should tell Intel and AMD to stop pushing out microcode updates to MS, who then pushes them out to end-users every couple of months or so? Hell, ask yourself this simple question - if driver updates really were irrelevant, why does E V E R Y OEM keeps pushing those out and implores people to install those?

"'Windows tuning and fixes' and those things should generally be avoided - because they are mostly snake oil." I agree, but that's the general rule of thumb when you see something on Reddit or Youtube or a site that looks like a mid-90s GeoCities reject, not when it comes from an industry peer working with the same equipment as you... then you may want to at least read up, before making a decision.

Incorrect, first of all get your definition of bloatware right (unwanted software included on a new computer or mobile device by the manufacturer / software whose usefulness is reduced because of the excessive disk space and memory it requires.), as it fails both definitions, because it does run lighter (and 3 months in crash-free) than the OEM solution and unlike CCC, you can install only what YOU want (ie in my case - FlexiKey, which I was forced to keep around, as Clevo had split off keyboard control out of their Control Center). Secondly, I said that for all the good that this software does, I don't think it justifies the price of admission for most people. But unlike your conjecture, I gave the OP actual first-hand experience with the app so he could make an informed decision.

Let's come back to thermal performance (as promised) - yes, cooling laptops is "hard", but what you're missing is that OEMs including Clevo (as resold by PCS) are a business that must prioritize production volume and not to wring out the best outta every single laptop they flog, so little stuff like proper thermal paste/pad application and component voltages get the one size fits all treatment. This is also the reason why some software tweaks and basic care can actually do wonders, ie on my PCS I shaved off 20ish degrees via a simple undervolt and repaste with some leftover MX4 I had at work (27 when re-repasted with Kryonaut). Dial-in your fan profile too, and you'll have a machine that runs significantly better than the "eh, good enough" setup you get from Clevo. Hell, another example of this is the "endemic" issue of backlight bleed on the P650HS-G (aka Defiance IV) from practically every reseller, which is solved in half an hour with a minimal amount of tools and hassle
 
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SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
I understand your concerns.
I have used throttlestop for the heat issues.

It did seem to help.

The updater tool use to be free and was very handy.
Some other clevo providers have partnered with the guy behind it. He works for obsidian that are a little bit like PCS but smaller and based in the fictional country of Portugal (It may exist lol).

But there is a lot of chat about it here http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/clevo-drivers-update-utility-by-obsidian-pc.801464/
The guys on NBR and toms hardware seem pretty genuine about this app.

But, I would rather have PCSoffically confirm it.
He does do some sort of licence for suppliers.

I also know at least one Hardcore gamer who swears by it.

If you want to check this out further with PCS, it would be best to probably email them on this subject and include any links you may want to provide.

I would stress that it has been adopted by other Clevo resellers otherwise they may just disregard it as 3rd party bloat.

Their email address is on the main PCS site at www.pcspecialist.co.uk
 

DannyWanny

PCS Marketing
Staff member
Moderator
I can confirm we have had a look at this in the past. Unfortunately, the software is quite expensive to add to all our Clevo laptop range - without adding the cost into the customer pricing (which we do not want to do) - I don't think it's possible I'm afraid.

It's a great utility, don't get me wrong, but the factoring in the price they are charging for large businesses, we'd be better off coding our own! :)
 

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
The updater thing was ace, and using your own dashboard at the pcs site, would be great.

You didn't properly read what I wrote about driver updates. Drivers do not need updating unless (and here's the important bit) you have a problem with the device, or if you need whatever new functionality is in the new driver code. All of the valid examples you cited fall into the second category where most users need the additional functionality. However, the few examples you cited are a tiny proportion of your installed drivers and updating a driver when you are not having problems or when you have no need of the new functionality is counter-productive. What you then do is replace stable code that's been executed billions of times with newer and potentially less stable code that's only been executed a few thousand times and, more importantly, for no gain.

Old code that you've executed again and again with no errors is much to be preferred over new code that you haven't executed yet at all, and if the new code buys you nothing then there is no point in installing it. When a user asks whether they should update their printer driver for example, because their current driver is dated 2003 what do you tell them? I would ask whether the printer is working fully and then ask what's in the new driver code that they need to use. If the answers are 'yes' and 'nothing' then I'd tell them to leave the driver well alone - regardless of how old it is.

Software that blindly updates every driver you have just because there is a new version out doesn't help make your system more stable, it actually reduces the potential stability of your system by introducing new code. If you weren't having any issues with the device and if whatever new functionality that's introduced doesn't apply to your system you gained absolutely nothing and potentially lost stability. In addition, because drivers run in kernel mode where the standard recovery options are not available, a driver error typically results in a BSOD. Updating a driver when you don't need to increases the risk of a BSOD, is that what you want?

You might argue that users shouldn't have to research their drivers but if they want to maintain a stable system they should - or ask for advice. Updating every driver whenever a new version is released is a mistake. BTW. The same is true of BIOS code....
 
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ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
Now that we've had a definite response to the OP's question from a PCS employee I'm closing this thread.
 
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