Phoebe specification

Following my good experience with PC Specialist some years ago, in building me a very reliable laptop that has been my primary computer for several years; in the last few days I ordered a new computer - now named Phoebe by me and awaiting build - and I didn't skimp on the requested design.

Design objectives for Phoebe:
Gaming case, physical portability not required. Accessories to be purchased separately as necessary.
Maximum currently available specification from PC Specialist, within reason
Not break sweat running current games and graphics needs; and equally be ready for future games and software not yet designed
Maximum affordable CPU, RAM, and fast SSD disk for potential heavy-duty SQL database numerical experimentation, game theory, and possibly AI learning applications
10+ years capability as a top-line system in future

Maybe I will need to add further GPU capability for any potential AI efforts and/or future games, but for now this should be adequate to get started with.

Phoebe specification:

Case
CORSAIR CARBIDE SERIES™ 275R TEMPERED GLASS GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i9 16 Core Processor i9-7960X (2.8GHz) 22MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® PRIME X299-A: ATX, USB 3.1, SATA 6 GB/s, RGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
128GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 2666MHz (8 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2070 - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready!
1st Storage Drive
480GB ADATA SU650 2.5" SSD, SATA 6 Gb (520MB/R, 450MB/W)
2nd Storage Drive
2TB SEAGATE BARRACUDA SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 64MB CACHE
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Noctua NH-U14S Ultra Quiet Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Extra Case Fans
4x CoolerMaster MasterFan Pro 120 RGB + Controller Kit
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
WIRELESS 802.11 Gigabyte GC-WB1733D-I AC 1734Mbps + BT5 PCI-E CARD
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Supplied on USB Drive
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Firefox™
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Promotional Item
Get Battlefield V -OR- Anthem with select NVIDIA GeForce RTX GPUs!
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book - United Kingdom & Republic of Ireland
Quantity
1

Price £3,483.00 including VAT and Delivery

You know you picked about the slowest SSD PCS sell, right?

If going for a Sata SSD, 860 Evo.

Otherwise, a faster NVMe SSD like the 970 Evo. I'm no expert but given the database uses, the fastest SSD you can get your hands on with the most IOPS would seem preferable?

For these CPUs, you will also want the best CPU cooler PCS have on sale. So H115 in this case I think.

Putting such expensive hardware and buying loads of extra fans for the most budget case PCS sell these systems in is not the best play. Much better to get a bit more mid-high end case with better cooling and airflow, especially if you might be beefing up the GPU in future. Although frankly I'd consider it mandatory for the current config.

Let's see how it works, I think it will be adequate to start with.

Admittedly case and other things may be something I did skimp on at this time; but I think there is sufficient cooling for the system as is. The extra fans were relatively inexpensive, I expect I will learn from this system and there could be many options in future.

I don't expect to run Phoebe at full capacity for possibly some years; I do very much like the turbo-boost auto overspeed I'm informed happens, because on current software I may struggle to use this many cores; but I expect that to change in future.

Mercury said:

Let's see how it works, I think it will be adequate to start with.

Admittedly case and other things may be something I did skimp on at this time; but I think there is sufficient cooling for the system as is. The extra fans were relatively inexpensive, I expect I will learn from this system and there could be many options in future.

I don't expect to run Phoebe at full capacity for possibly some years; I do very much like the turbo-boost auto overspeed I'm informed happens, because on current software I may struggle to use this many cores; but I expect that to change in future.

Click to expand...

The problem with a poor case is that with those components, especially with that CPU and the Noctua, you can add as many fans as you like, but it's not going to provide optimum cooling potential as the case isn't designed for it, and that's going to be a major factor with that chip. It's a really really bad pairing, can't stress that enough. Adding more fans doesn't mean better airflow. The fans have to align to a route that is optimised by the case, otherwise you get negative pressures that can cause serious damage. A case like that is not designed for high end components and will not have a route factored in, so your bound to get negative and static areas.

Again, the SSD is about the poorest that PCS sell, an NVME Samsung pro would be much more suitable for your uses. I wouldn't be surprised if that one falls over after a year running advanced SQL processes on it, it just won't have the IOPS capacity for that many RW processes. That's aside from the fact that not much more cost will net you a drive that performs at 7 times the speeds and more IOPS.

I would highly advise making a couple of changes to the build. It's quite likely it won't survive 2 years let alone 10 under the current configuration. If it's still awaiting build, it won't affect the queue time at all.

This is an extract from a reputable system builder site, link at the bottom:

General Rules
It can be tempting to buy a case that comes with as many fans as possible in the hope that it will more adequately cool your system, but as you will see, efficient and smooth air flow is demonstrably more important than a higher total air flow in cubic feet per minute (CFM).

The first step in any PC build is to buy a good quality case that already comes with the fans that you need, and none that you don’t. Cases that use three fans aligned vertically on the front are a great place to start, as they draw in air evenly across the entire face of the enclosure. That many intake fans will most likely contribute to positive air pressure within the case, though (See the advanced section at the end of this guide for details on case air pressure). Rear and top fans should always be exhausts, expelling the rising warm air from the case.

Do not buy a case that causes any obvious obstructions to air flow. For example, side-mounted hard disk caddies are fantastic, but if they also require you to install the disks vertically, they are obviously going to seriously impede air flow.

Consider spending extra on a modular PSU. Having the ability to remove superfluous cables makes for a much cleaner system, and allows you to easily add cables for hardware acquired in the future.

Do not install unnecessary hardware: Remove those old PCI cards that never get used anymore, leave the RAM module extra fan kit in it’s packaging, and consolidate small hard disks onto a single larger replacement. Please, throw away your floppy drive.

Large internal fan ducts, while a good idea on paper, are more likely to decrease overall thermal performance by obstructing primary air flow through the case. Detach and remove them if possible.

Fans mounted on the side of the case can be useful, but they often cause problems. If they’re running at a too high a CFM, side fans can render heatsink fans mounted on video cards and CPUs ineffective. They can cause turbulence, hindering the efficient flow of air through a case, and can contribute significantly to dust build-up. A side-mounted fan should only ever be used to gently stir the warm air that can accumulate in the “dead spot” beneath PCIe and PCI cards. This is best achieved by using a larger, low RPM fan.

Clean your PC on a regular basis! Dust accumulation is a major hazard to electronics, as it is an insulator and can clog up exhaust ports. Simply open up the case in a well ventilated area and use some compressed air or a gentle brush to dislodge the accumulated dust. A vacuum cleaner can help to collect the dust before your lungs do, but be careful that you don’t knock any capacitors off of your components with it. Cleaning will be a important measure to take, at least until we are are all running coolers that de-dust themselves.

Larger, lower RPM fans are generally far quieter and more efficient than their smaller, faster counterparts. Where possible, choose big.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/128313-extremetechs-guide-to-air-cooling-your-pc

The case is an extremely important part of a high end build and needs to be respected as such.

Yes.. you've managed to skimp on the case and cooling, which may well affect both performance and longevity, and be more of a hassle to upgrade than anything else (upgrading the case = rebuilding the system).

My point wasn't that you shouldn't buy some nice shiny RGB fans. My point was that it was dumb to buy them and add them to a cheap case. Like adding a jet engine to a mini.. it's not going to fundamentally change the limitations of the chassis and doesn't seem like a good use of money or components.

Seriously, you can afford £3500 for the PC, buy a better case that won't gimp the system or allow it to start cooking.

And a better CPU cooler while you're at it for the same reason. Remembering that turbo boost is affected by thermal limits as well as power ones.

For the case, Corsair 460X. Only £43 more, and has 3 high quality Corsair RGB fans of its own. Decent cooling.

Corsair Carbide Air 540. £59 more and has some of the best cooling capabilities of any case on offer, especially with multi GPU setups.

Any of the ones over £60 tbh.

There's also the separate issue of paying £3.5K to 'futureproof' as you don't expect to really use the limits of the system for some years. Which is a terrible idea because we're on the verge of PCIe 4.0 (later this year for consumers) and DDR5 might be out as soon as 2020. RAM prices are still extremely high, maybe around double what they used to be, and are set to fall. So all you're doing is spending a load of £ on stuff that'll be obsolete and no longer close to top end by the time you actually want to use it. Versus buying a pair of cheaper systems, one now, one in the future.

That's your choice ofc, but if you are going to do that, at least get decent cooling to look after your expensive hardware properly.

PCS allow you to amend the order and I strong encourage you to do so.

OK, lay off the negativity please guys.

The system should easily do what I need at present, without overheating, and I'm not afraid to change or rebuild in future if need be.

Really hefty SQL is a bit in the future I expect, I'll experiment with it and with how this case performs.

For now I have every confidence it will perform for my immediate needs; you may know the hardware combination better than me and advice is OK but please don't lecture.

I will let you know how it works, or not.

But do you not want to buy something a lot better for the same money???

Not necessarily; and my definition of "better" is not the same, by necessity the OP was brief.

I will take the suggestions under advisement. System is not yet built, though is paid for.

I'm not concerned about current SSD performance; having an SSD main disk at all is a huge upgrade to me and the cheapest such available now is fine. I fully expect tech to change dramatically in the next 10 years so I have zero interest in how current tech might develop; I anticipate it will be obsolete in any case and when I next upgrade it will be very different.

Mercury said:

Not necessarily; and my definition of "better" is not the same, by necessity the OP was brief.

I will take the suggestions under advisement. System is not yet built, though is paid for.

Click to expand...

Yes but if not built yet you can cancel and start again. I can't imagine a single scenario that the build you listed would be 'better'.

Mercury said:

I'm not concerned about current SSD performance; having an SSD main disk at all is a huge upgrade to me and the cheapest such available now is fine. I fully expect tech to change dramatically in the next 10 years so I have zero interest in how current tech might develop; I anticipate it will be obsolete in any case and when I next upgrade it will be very different.

Click to expand...

If you insist on remaining with your current build then go for it. Not sure why you'd post it for comment though. But it is objectively poor in several areas and you're wasting money. You will lose nothing by modiying it. There is absolutely no logic in stubbornly sticking to your build.

without overheating,

Click to expand...

As I'm sure you know, there's a difference between overheating, and losing performance due to temps being above a certain level.

if a CPU goes to 100 degrees (or 105 on certain models, I don't have the exact number to hand for i9 7000 series) that's overheating.

If a GPU goes to 90 degrees, that's well over the target temp.

However, if a GPU has a target temp of ~84 degrees like Pascal, it will actually start reducing its boost clocks in the 70s. Most cards will be above 70 degrees in most systems, so airflow to help cool the card is relevant to keep that as low as possible

Therefore cooling is not just about avoid a thermal shutdown due to critical overheating, it's also about keeping components sufficiently cool to maximise performance.

Furthermore, heat kills components, gradually. Therefore a case with better airflow that gets the heat out of it more effectively will also help with the lifespan of all components. Noting too of course that SSDs can thermal throttle under much, much lower temps than CPUs and GPUs and within safe operating temperatures.

Precisely why you are insistent on not changing your cooling to objectively improve your build is unclear to me. It's not negativity to encourage you to improve the spec to ensure you get the most out of some very powerful hardware.

I asked for feedback because I want to learn; and also I would like a nice system that can deliver what I hope.

Based on the responses, I have made 3 changes to the order:
Item 1 Change to FRACTAL DEFINE R6 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE from CORSAIR CARBIDE SERIES™ 275R TEMPERED GLASS GAMING CASE
Item 2 Change to 2x 120mm Black Case Fan (configured to extract from rear/roof) from 4x CoolerMaster MasterFan Pro 120 RGB + Controller Kit
Item 3 Change to Genuine Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [MUP-00003] from Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]

Price for this change was £30. So 1% more or less of the full system cost.

Item 3 is the simplest change, an oversight on my part since I had intended to select that initially. I would ideally prefer to run a full Linux system, with any Windows gaming under VM, but for practical reasons I've gone the other way, and run Windows as the host system, with any Linux VMs below that; from a security perspective I prefer to access the internet via a VM and keep Windows just for games. I do however require full access to all Windows capabilities.

Item 1 and 2 are the result of the previous comments in these forums. I have no clue if this will meet approval or not, and could care less; but I care a bit at least. i did receive entirely different criticism from a gaming community I'm part of, because Phoebe is so massively overpowered for running that particular game in its current iteration; the difference there being that they don't have the hardware knowledge present in this forum, and that (I believe) they are not considering how that game we love may evolve in future, as may other games.

I would advise being more pleasant in your comments and criticism; I very nearly walked away from this forum in anger without making any changes, you don't communicate with someone if you simply tell them how dumb they are being (even if you're right!).

Take care all.

And I hope the final production version of Phoebe will deliver, let's see.

Mercury

Of course it will deliver something. But it won't deliver as well as another build could do for the same or even less money. No-one has called you dumb. All you've had is constructive comments suggesting you change a lot of the parts of your build as many are poor choices and wastes of money. You don't want to. And you also appear not to like your chosen build being criticised. Of course your build will be overpowered for certain things. But so would a machine half the price. But again, it's your money. Spend it how you like on unnecessary and obsolete items if you wish.

SlimCini said:

Of course it will deliver something. But it won't deliver as well as another build could do for the same or even less money. No-one has called you dumb. All you've had is constructive comments suggesting you change a lot of the parts of your build as many are poor choices and wastes of money. You don't want to. And you also appear not to like your chosen build being criticised. Of course your build will be overpowered for certain things. But so would a machine half the price. But again, it's your money. Spend it how you like on unnecessary and obsolete items if you wish.

Click to expand...

As stated before, you may wish to reconsider how you talk to others.

As you say, I will do what the hell I feel like doing. And simply telling me what an idiot I am, as you have once again done, can only alienate me and result in a harsh response.

Where is the "block" button on this forum?

Mercury said:

As stated before, you may wish to reconsider how you talk to others.

As you say, I will do what the hell I feel like doing. And simply telling me what an idiot I am, as you have once again done, can only alienate me and result in a harsh response.

Where is the "block" button on this forum?

Click to expand...

Please remain civil. No one has called anyone an idiot.

We will always try to steer people into sensible purchases getting as much performance for sensible price points. Computer components are funny things, there are so many to choose from but it’s not the case that the most expensive is best or vice versa, each has their place for specific usages.

These guys are just trying to highlight that your build isn’t balanced for your uses and so you’re not going to get the best performance for the money you’re spending.

SpyderTracks said:

Please remain civil. No one has called anyone an idiot.

We will always try to steer people into sensible purchases getting as much performance for sensible price points. Computer components are funny things, there are so many to choose from but it’s not the case that the most expensive is best or vice versa, each has their place for specific usages.

These guys are just trying to highlight that your build isn’t balanced for your uses and so you’re not going to get the best performance for the money you’re spending.

Click to expand...

Thanks SpyderTracks.

I am hopeful that the recent changes I made to the order (it's still in pre-production) will improve the build. I don't want to make more changes than are strictly necessary.

I also am quite deliberately making possibly unbalanced choices *at this moment* because I believe these decisons will make sense in a few years time. I could be wrong. Commentary on physical layout of the case and air-cooling is very valid, and I don't understand the implications of my choices on that. At some point I just have to go for it.

Mercury

Mercury said:

Thanks SpyderTracks.

I am hopeful that the recent changes I made to the order (it's still in pre-production) will improve the build. I don't want to make more changes than are strictly necessary.

I also am quite deliberately making possibly unbalanced choices *at this moment* because I believe these decisons will make sense in a few years time. I could be wrong. Commentary on physical layout of the case and air-cooling is very valid, and I don't understand the implications of my choices on that. At some point I just have to go for it.

Mercury

Click to expand...

You're speaking as if some of the components you've chosen are somehow misunderstood and will suddenly have hidden talents that will come to the fore in a few years. This isn't true. Your decisions won't make sense in a few years time. You're making objective and clear choices on components you know about or at least can ask about. There aren't some unpredictable brexit like possibilities here I'm afraid. It's all quite predictable.

Your changes make slight improvements. But nowhere near what could be deemed sensible or financially sound.