Anti-Virus / Firewall

Hello all. Im just getting my firs gaming PC. It will be used solely for gaming and mainly via Steam. As I wont be using it to look at anything else do I need an anti-virus or firewall and if so what should I get????
Thanks
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Hello all. Im just getting my firs gaming PC. It will be used solely for gaming and mainly via Steam. As I wont be using it to look at anything else do I need an anti-virus or firewall and if so what should I get????
Thanks
Windows 10 has both firewall and anti virus built in and they're both very good, no need for anything else.
They will automatically activate when you set up windows.
 
Okay thanks. Ive been Mac for so many years so this really hasn't been a problem.
Thanks very much for your reply. Its good to know I dont need to get anything else.
Regards. Steve
 

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
Yeah, I imagine gaming hasn't been a problem if one is using a mac! Kidding aside, if you meant viruses haven't been an issue, macs can be attacked by malware.

Two things to be aware of with Antiviruses and games:

False positives - sometimes AVs will identify legitimate games as threats. It's not impossible for hackers to inflect legitimate software and distribute malware via that. However, most of the time, it's just the AV getting it not quite right.

And another thing is that when you launch a game for the first time, Windows Firewall will usually pop up asking you to confirm a rule for the game, with a window that looks something like:

Image result for windows firewall game rule popup


You'll usually just click allow access to private networks. Or else some online aspects of the game may not work (and modern games have a lot of online components).
 
Thanks for your reply Oussebon.

Just to clarify I havent been computer gaming probably since I had a windows based PC in the early 90s. Since then Ive been using a Mac for office and internet related tasks.

My gaming has been console based usually on the Playstation.

When I was gaming in the 90s you bought the games on CDs and loaded them onto your hard drive. I even remember prior to CDs being the main way of loading games using cassette tapes.

Im glad to say we've somewhat moved on since then.

Until recently and my discovery of Steam I ignorantly thought that PC gaming was still using CDs / DVDs to load games onto hard drives. It was only after speaking to a young relative that I was told about Steam. Ive got to say how much better it appears that all you games are held on the Steam platform. Oh and how cheap and convenient they are.

Anyway back to the topic in question. Anti virus / firewall. So windows will set up the anti virus and firewall upon installation and I should have nothing to worry about??????
 

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
Although now our game libraries are essentially at the mercy of the DRM providers. Steam's unlikely to go splat in the near future, and they allegedly have plans to make sure gamers can still use their games should they shut up shop, but people could still find their entire game libraries worth thousands of £ wiped out.

As opposed to the old days where you actually owned your copy.

Some clients are DRM-free at least, like GOG: https://www.gog.com/

NB: Steam isn't the only client / DRM platform either. Until a few weeks ago, EA's games were only on Origin (now also on Steam). Epic (the ones behind Fortnite) are rapidly expanding their own client and platform, and have landed several high profile titles as 'timed exclusives' i.e. you can only get them on Epic for the first year. Borderlands 3, Metro Exodus, The Outer Worlds I think.

If you don't have an Epic account, worth making one, as they give away games (often very good ones) for free every week. EA did something similar with Origin, and Ubisoft have done it with uPlay before.

Competition is good at least - and GOG are making a serious effort to develop a game client that unifies the different platforms so you can see your libraries all in one place, at least, available now in open beta.

Also, you don't need to buy games directly from Steam. You can usually find them cheaper on legit resellers listed on
https://isthereanydeal.com/

---

Yes you get Windows defender and firewall as part of Windows, and once Windows has installed it will be there by default.

You can set up controlled folder access to protect your data against ransomware:

As for 'nothing to worry about', you still need to take your own precautions. Use complex, and unique passwords for accounts you use. But that's true of macs, sites you access via iphone/android/life in general.

If you ever find something you don't know how to do in Windows, ofc you can ask here but Tenforums is a great resource.
 
Although now our game libraries are essentially at the mercy of the DRM providers. Steam's unlikely to go splat in the near future, and they allegedly have plans to make sure gamers can still use their games should they shut up shop, but people could still find their entire game libraries worth thousands of £ wiped out.

As opposed to the old days where you actually owned your copy.

Some clients are DRM-free at least, like GOG: https://www.gog.com/

NB: Steam isn't the only client / DRM platform either. Until a few weeks ago, EA's games were only on Origin (now also on Steam). Epic (the ones behind Fortnite) are rapidly expanding their own client and platform, and have landed several high profile titles as 'timed exclusives' i.e. you can only get them on Epic for the first year. Borderlands 3, Metro Exodus, The Outer Worlds I think.

If you don't have an Epic account, worth making one, as they give away games (often very good ones) for free every week. EA did something similar with Origin, and Ubisoft have done it with uPlay before.

Competition is good at least - and GOG are making a serious effort to develop a game client that unifies the different platforms so you can see your libraries all in one place, at least, available now in open beta.

Also, you don't need to buy games directly from Steam. You can usually find them cheaper on legit resellers listed on
https://isthereanydeal.com/

---

Yes you get Windows defender and firewall as part of Windows, and once Windows has installed it will be there by default.

You can set up controlled folder access to protect your data against ransomware:

As for 'nothing to worry about', you still need to take your own precautions. Use complex, and unique passwords for accounts you use. But that's true of macs, sites you access via iphone/android/life in general.

If you ever find something you don't know how to do in Windows, ofc you can ask here but Tenforums is a great resource.


Thanks very much for that. I get the general gist of what youre saying above but you lost me in places.

DRM ??

Controlled folder access??

The game resellers. ??

Thanks again
 
Hi Ossebon,

Ive had a look GOG etc as suggested above. Sorry for the ignorance but its all a little confusing.

Is Steam a DRM? If so why is GOG DRM free?

Is there a link to anywhere which will give me a potted update a to what these, and what are my options and generally what online gaming is all about?

My aim to to get involved with gaming whether its just a stand alone game or online and to have my games stored somewhere.

????
 

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
Game clients:

Your options are:

If you play games on PC, you will almost certainly have to use Steam at some point. That's not really an option, most games are on Steam, it's hard to avoid Steam even if you wanted to.

You may also have to use other things that are like Steam if you want a game that is not on Steam. For instance, Blizzard's "World of Warcraft" is only available on Blizzard's "Battle.net" client. Which is their equivalent of Steam.

You can buy games direct from Steam / Ubisoft / etc. Or you can buy game from other stores ("resellers") that sell keys for less.

Some stores are 'grey market' i.e. may sell non-valid keys. Any store listed on Isthereanydeal will be a valid reseller.

Example:
I bought Total War: WARHAMMER II - Curse of the Vampire Coast yesterday. It was £7.49 on Steam. A shop called 2game was selling it for £5.39. So I bought it on 2game and saved a couple of quid. They gave me a 'game key' which I activated on Steam, and got the game via Steam.

==

DRM - digital rights management. To (try to) stop people pirating games, or indeed movies, music, any digital media.

If you ever bought a movie or music on itunes, you're familiar with DRM.

In real terms DRM means you need an account on a platform like Steam to verify you have a legitimate copy, and you then can only launch the game by using that software. Some DRM is particularly aggressive, requiring you to be online constantly for constant verification, even in single player titles. Some are alleged to reduce game performance through inordinate CPU load.

It runs against traditional concepts of owning media. if you buy a bluray or a book, you own that book or movie. You don't need an internet connection to give you permission to read it.

GOG (and some others) offer DRM-free games. So you buy the game from them, download it, and after that you run the game without needing GOG, Steam or any other software to verify it's a legit copy.

==

Ransomware is malware that encrypts files on your PC and then extorts money from you to give you your data back. Controlled folder access prevents programs from altering the data in those folders, protecting you from ransomware. You may have heard of WannaCry.

==

Game reseller = shop / online store. Specifically a store that doesn't make the games / manage the DRM, but just sells games. Like you can buy a Macbook direct from Apple. Or you can buy a Macbook from a reseller like PC World.

Same thing with games. You can buy Assassin's Creed: Odyssey direct from Ubisoft, or you can buy it from a shop like Humble, Fanatical, Green Man Gaming, or a few dozen others. Resellers sell you the key / code for the game, which you then activate on Steam (or the relevant DRM software).

==
 
Last edited:

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
This topic reminds me I was working on a more organised guide to "I'm new to PC gaming, where do I get games?". Should dust that off.
 
Game clients:

Your options are:

If you play games on PC, you will almost certainly have to use Steam at some point. That's not really an option, most games are on Steam, it's hard to avoid Steam even if you wanted to.

You may also have to use other things that are like Steam if you want a game that is not on Steam. For instance, Blizzard's "World of Warcraft" is only available on Blizzard's "Battle.net" client. Which is their equivalent of Steam.

You can buy games direct from Steam / Ubisoft / etc. Or you can buy game from other stores ("resellers") that sell keys for less.

Some stores are 'grey market' i.e. may sell non-valid keys. Any store listed on Isthereanydeal will be a valid reseller.

Example:
I bought Total War: WARHAMMER II - Curse of the Vampire Coast yesterday. It was £7.49 on Steam. A shop called 2game was selling it for £5.39. So I bought it on 2game and saved a couple of quid. They gave me a 'game key' which I activated on Steam, and got the game via Steam.

==

DRM - digital rights management. To (try to) stop people pirating games, or indeed movies, music, any digital media.

if you every bought a movie or music on itunes, you're familiar with DRM.

In real terms DRM means you need an account on a platform like Steam to verify you have a legitimate copy, and you then can only launch the game by using that software. Some DRM is particularly aggressive, requiring you to be online constantly for constant verification, even in single player titles. Some are alleged to reduce game performance through inordinate CPU load.

It runs against traditional concepts of owning media. if you buy a bluray or a book, you own that book or movie. You don't need an internet connection to give you permission to read it.

GOG (and some others) offer DRM-free games. So you buy the game from them, download it, and after that you run the game without needing GOG, Steam or any other software to verify it's a legit copy.

==

Ransomware is malware that encrypts files on your PC and then extorts money from you to give you your data back. Controlled folder access prevents programs from altering the data in those folders, protecting you from ransomware. You may have heard of WannaCry.

==

Game reseller = shop / online store. Specifically a store that doesn't make the games / manage the DRM, but just sells games. Like you can buy a Macbook direct from Apple. Or you can buy a Macbook from a reseller like PC World.

Same thing with games. You can buy Assassin's Creed: Odyssey direct from Ubisoft, or you can buy it from a shop like Humble, Fanatical, Green Man Gaming, or a few dozen others. Resellers sell you the key / code for the game, which you then activate on Steam (or the relevant DRM software).

==

Thank you very much for the above. Very informative. The mud is a little clearer.

My PC is being delivered on Monday so Ill be attempting to set everything up then.

Wish me luck..........
 

VenatoS

Well-known member
If you want to get a 3rd Party Anti Virus.
I STRONGLY Recommend Kaspersky.
It is truly a great anti-virus a long with other useful features that it contains!
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
If you want to get a 3rd Party Anti Virus.
I STRONGLY Recommend Kaspersky.
It is truly a great anti-virus a long with other useful features that it contains!
I had kaspersky for years before I moved to windows defender and it was my favorite paid for package by a country mile. So much better than Norton, cheaper and more fully featured.

I'd still opt for windows defender over any paid version any day of the week though.
 

VenatoS

Well-known member
I had kaspersky for years before I moved to windows defender and it was my favorite paid for package by a country mile. So much better than Norton, cheaper and more fully featured.

I'd still opt for windows defender over any paid version any day of the week though.

Some of the malware & viruses I've had were not detected by Windows Defender though.. Where the Kaspersky managed it.
 

Oussebon

Multiverse Poster
I had Kaspersky for years, and the one time it needed putting to the test it failed. Virus took down my PC during the middle of my Masters, which was dashed awkward at the time. Spot who had forgotten to back up their most recent work... Linux live to the rescue...

It'a also bloatware these days. And I'm not sure I'd buy security products from companies based where Kaspersky are based wither these days tbh...

I found bitdefender to be much more effective, though stopped using that circa 2015 when it caused extremely long boot up times due to deep scans it insisted on running about 50% of the time, and conflicts with drivers (!). It stopped any viruses but also stopped my PC functioning.

Avira Free I gave up on as the ads were annoying as hell

My current is Avast Free and my next will be Windows Defender most likely...
 

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
If you want to get a 3rd Party Anti Virus.
I STRONGLY Recommend Kaspersky.
It is truly a great anti-virus a long with other useful features that it contains!
I'm afraid I STRONGLY disagree.

There is a huge amount of hype talked about anti-malware tools IMO. In the early days when Windows had no firewall or anti-malware engine, third-party tools became essential as malware began to become an issue. Microsoft, as ever, were slow to respond and the initial firewall and anti-malware bundled software was very poor compared to the third-party tools, mainly because the third-party vendors had several years of experience building these tools that Microsoft just didn't have.

Microsoft have improved the firewall and introduced Defender many years ago so that today they are more than good enough to protect the average user from most threats. It must be remembered that they are built into Windows, they're not add-ons depending on (in some cases) undocumented hooks that may change with any Windows update. Windows Defender also contains a fair number of exploit protections that protect you against most exploits even if the malware gets in.

The problem today is that those third-party anti-malware vendors have built themselves global businesses based on a problem that really no longer exists now that Windows Defender and firewall are built in. Like any business they're not about to roll over and die so they continue to try to outdo Microsoft. It's entirely possible that some third-party tools do offer better security in some small areas than the Microsoft offerings, but you have to ask yourself whether you really need that, especially if you're being asked to pay for it. When you consider that the Microsoft tools offer probably 99.8% protection for free, do you want to be paying a sizeable sum each year to get 99.9% protection?

One other thing that these third-party companies do is to skew the measure of their performance. Most people believe that the number of detections is a good measure of how reliable an anti-virus tool is, so the vendors make their tools flag anything that's definitely not malware as suspicious. The goal is the biggest detection count and that's not really helpful at all because none of these tools can protect you against malware they don't recognise, even heuristics can't protect you if the malware doesn't fail their tests. Zero-day malware will often get past these tools.

The only sure way to protect yourself against malware is to contain it so that it can't harm your PC by running all unknown processes in a sandbox. Microsoft are experimenting with sandbox technology, Windows Defender for example runs in a protected sandbox so that malware can't affect it, something you can't say about many third-party tools. Clearly Microsoft are working towards the automatic sandboxing of unknown processes and when that happens all third-party tools will be redundant.

As I've said, it's just not necessary to pay for decent Internet security with Windows 10, it's already built in and is getting better and better all the time. In any case, given the fuss over the alleged interference of Russia in many aspects of the western way of life that we see almost constantly in the news, I would be very wary of recommending a Russian made security product to anyone.
 

VenatoS

Well-known member
I'm afraid I STRONGLY disagree.

There is a huge amount of hype talked about anti-malware tools IMO. In the early days when Windows had no firewall or anti-malware engine, third-party tools became essential as malware began to become an issue. Microsoft, as ever, were slow to respond and the initial firewall and anti-malware bundled software was very poor compared to the third-party tools, mainly because the third-party vendors had several years of experience building these tools that Microsoft just didn't have.

Microsoft have improved the firewall and introduced Defender many years ago so that today they are more than good enough to protect the average user from most threats. It must be remembered that they are built into Windows, they're not add-ons depending on (in some cases) undocumented hooks that may change with any Windows update. Windows Defender also contains a fair number of exploit protections that protect you against most exploits even if the malware gets in.

The problem today is that those third-party anti-malware vendors have built themselves global businesses based on a problem that really no longer exists now that Windows Defender and firewall are built in. Like any business they're not about to roll over and die so they continue to try to outdo Microsoft. It's entirely possible that some third-party tools do offer better security in some small areas than the Microsoft offerings, but you have to ask yourself whether you really need that, especially if you're being asked to pay for it. When you consider that the Microsoft tools offer probably 99.8% protection for free, do you want to be paying a sizeable sum each year to get 99.9% protection?

One other thing that these third-party companies do is to skew the measure of their performance. Most people believe that the number of detections is a good measure of how reliable an anti-virus tool is, so the vendors make their tools flag anything that's definitely not malware as suspicious. The goal is the biggest detection count and that's not really helpful at all because none of these tools can protect you against malware they don't recognise, even heuristics can't protect you if the malware doesn't fail their tests. Zero-day malware will often get past these tools.

The only sure way to protect yourself against malware is to contain it so that it can't harm your PC by running all unknown processes in a sandbox. Microsoft are experimenting with sandbox technology, Windows Defender for example runs in a protected sandbox so that malware can't affect it, something you can't say about many third-party tools. Clearly Microsoft are working towards the automatic sandboxing of unknown processes and when that happens all third-party tools will be redundant.

As I've said, it's just not necessary to pay for decent Internet security with Windows 10, it's already built in and is getting better and better all the time. In any case, given the fuss over the alleged interference of Russia in many aspects of the western way of life that we see almost constantly in the news, I would be very wary of recommending a Russian made security product to anyone.

I was only advising if he wanted a 3rd Party Anti Virus , this is the one I'd go for as it provides a ton of features that may come in useful.
Parental control, password protection etc.
If he is going to buy one anyway, don't want him buying something like Norton or other poor ones.
 
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