appreciation of language

[Deleted member 41971]

inspired by this thread https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/more-white-or-pink-cases.80809/#post-599453, where the bottom few posts are about how interesting language is, I thought I would create a thread regarding this, I have linked the video of Steven fry as it gives it its own thread,

@NoddyPirate @ColEyt @SpyderTracks (I have tagged the people who contributed to the above page, anyone is very welcome to contribute to their favourite linguistics, writers or words etc)

I also found Christopher Hitchens interview with Newsnight which was one of his last interviews was both very interesting and also the way he articulates his experiences considering his cancer diagnosis was also very thought provoking

 

[NoddyPirate]

I’ll have to dig out some of my favourites Hitch quotes later - but for now his addition to philosophy is forever to be known as ‘Hitchen’s Razor’:

“That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

 

[NoddyPirate]

One of my favourite Hitch quotes - sums up so much of what he dsicussed in his later life too.

"Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you."

His Memoir "Hitch-22" is a superb read as is "Mortality" which he wrote after receiving his terminal cancer diagnosis.

 

[NoddyPirate]

And the most succinct and accurate representation of my own feelings towards the modern world and where we are headed, in this wonderful summary from Stephen Fry. Listen from 1:15 to about 8:30 for 7 ish minutes of utter brilliance! The man is a total one off really....

7 Deadly Sins - S2 - Introduction

 

[Bigfoot]

I’ll have to dig out some of my favourites Hitch quotes later - but for now his addition to philosophy is forever to be known as ‘Hitchen’s Razor’:

“That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

So, should I dismiss Hitchin’s Razor due to it being an assertion without evidence? Hoisted by his own petard.

 

[NoddyPirate]

So, should I dismiss Hitchin’s Razor due to it being an assertion without evidence? Hoisted by his own petard.

That could be a quote from Socrates @Bigfoot ! (Reading Plato is another fun endeavour I've undertaken recently.)

Or we could just go all Postmodern on it and elect to concede that all is lacking objective reality in the first place - and that words are nothing more than vehicles of contrast and differentiation between other words. Which I personally find easiest to condense into:

Who cares bro, cos we is all gonna be just as dead eventually!

 

[Bigfoot]

I hope you are reading Socrates and Plato in the original language to get the full meaning of it. The opportunity to learn Ancient Greek at school was one I turned down in favour of more modern languages.

 

[NoddyPirate]

I hope you are reading Socrates and Plato in the original language to get the full meaning of it. The opportunity to learn Ancient Greek at school was one I turned down in favour of more modern languages.

Jeez - it’s hard enough in English!!

 

[Deleted member 41971]

One of my favourite Hitch quotes - sums up so much of what he dsicussed in his later life too.

"Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you."

His Memoir "Hitch-22" is a superb read as is "Mortality" which he wrote after receiving his terminal cancer diagnosis.

this christopher hitchens quote is quite marvellous, I always feel great language is nourishment for the mind and soul that is quite lacking in the current times we live, I heard just the other day a chap said "alight bruv bruv blood." to which I felt like handing him a thesaurus.

“To be the father of growing daughters is to understand something of what Yeats evokes with his imperishable phrase 'terrible beauty.' Nothing can make one so happily exhilarated or so frightened: it's a solid lesson in the limitations of self to realize that your heart is running around inside someone else's body. It also makes me quite astonishingly calm at the thought of death: I know whom I would die to protect and I also understand that nobody but a lugubrious serf can possibly wish for a father who never goes away.”

 

[AgentCooper]

It’s a terrifying world we live in: The English language is so expressive, I think we have twice as many words compared to our nearest contender (Russian, if my memory serves me correctly), and yet half of the text messages I receive are barely coherent. I hope wordsmiths such as Fry and Hitchens are long celebrated.

 

[Deleted member 41971]

It’s a terrifying world we live in: The English language is so expressive, I think we have twice as many words compared to our nearest contender (Russian, if my memory serves me correctly), and yet half of the text messages I receive are barely coherent. I hope wordsmiths such as Fry and Hitchens are long celebrated.

twitter ruined a lot of conversations on its inception as people had to fit everything in with a limit of 250 characters, especially when your a president arguing with china, diplomacy goes flying out the window.

 

[Deleted member 41971]

george orwell quote from 1984"

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”​

George carlin quote

“The larger the group, the more toxic, the more of your beauty as an individual you have to surrender for the sake of group thought. And when you suspend your individual beauty you also give up a lot of your humanity. You will do things in the name of a group that you would never do on your own. Injuring, hurting, killing, drinking are all part of it, because you've lost your identity, because you now owe your allegiance to this thing that's bigger than you are and that controls you".

 

[NoddyPirate]

this christopher hitchens quote is quite marvellous, I always feel great language is nourishment for the mind and soul that is quite lacking in the current times we live, I heard just the other day a chap said "alight bruv bruv blood." to which I felt like handing him a thesaurus.

“To be the father of growing daughters is to understand something of what Yeats evokes with his imperishable phrase 'terrible beauty.' Nothing can make one so happily exhilarated or so frightened: it's a solid lesson in the limitations of self to realize that your heart is running around inside someone else's body. It also makes me quite astonishingly calm at the thought of death: I know whom I would die to protect and I also understand that nobody but a lugubrious serf can possibly wish for a father who never goes away.”

Marvellous! Although he was primarily strengthening his attack on religion in the above, it reminds me of a poem my Uncle wrote after his father died, which I can’t find just now but will try to recall later if I can.....

 

[KippleKat]

I'll share a few of my favourite quotes...

“The meaning of life is just to be alive. It is so plain and so obvious and so simple. And yet, everybody rushes around in a great panic as if it were necessary to achieve something beyond themselves.” – Alan Watts

"Because today we live in a society in which spurious realities are manufactured by the media, by governments, by big corporations, by religious groups, political groups... So I ask, in my writing, What is real? Because unceasingly we are bombarded with pseudo-realities manufactured by very sophisticated people using very sophisticated electronic mechanisms. I do not distrust their motives; I distrust their power. They have a lot of it. And it is an astonishing power: that of creating whole universes, universes of the mind. I ought to know. I do the same thing." - Philip K Dick

 

[ubuysa]

When I began learning Greek several years ago (it's still a work in progress) the teacher began with a quote from Nelson Mandela...

If you speak to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his own language, that goes to his heart.

 

[NoddyPirate]

When I began learning Greek several years ago (it's still a work in progress) the teacher began with a quote from Nelson Mandela...

If you speak to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his own language, that goes to his heart.

How have you found learning Greek? I’ve always assumed it was one of the tougher languages to grasp - never mind the script.....? 🤔

 

[ubuysa]

How have you found learning Greek? I’ve always assumed it was one of the tougher languages to grasp - never mind the script.....? [emoji848]

The alphabet is easy to master. The grammar (which is essential) is hard but doable. The problem is that pronunciation is everything. If you don't pronounce every word spot on they genuinely don't know what you've said. That makes practising your Greek near impossible, they either shrug or speak in English!

 

[Bigfoot]

When I began learning Greek several years ago (it's still a work in progress) the teacher began with a quote from Nelson Mandela...

If you speak to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head. If you talk to him in his own language, that goes to his heart.

I have always found trying to speak in the local language gets a much better response than speaking slowly and loudly in English. Even a few words, such as Hello or Thank You make a big difference. It is said that French are rude, especially Parisians. I have never found that, but I always try to use my rusty French. When I do this, I am often asked what country I come from and there is usually surprise when they find out I am English. My German is even rustier and evening class Italian had a shopkeeper in fits of laughter. I can manage a few words in Norwegian, Slovenian and Arabic. I did once try to learn Cantonese at evening class, but never really had a use for it. I would love to improve my language skills and add Spanish to my repertoire.

 

[NoddyPirate]

I have always found trying to speak in the local language gets a much better response than speaking slowly and loudly in English. Even a few words, such as Hello or Thank You make a big difference. It is said that French are rude, especially Parisians. I have never found that, but I always try to use my rusty French. When I do this, I am often asked what country I come from and there is usually surprise when they find out I am English. My German is even rustier and evening class Italian had a shopkeeper in fits of laughter. I can manage a few words in Norwegian, Slovenian and Arabic. I did once try to learn Cantonese at evening class, but never really had a use for it. I would love to improve my language skills and add Spanish to my repertoire.

I spoke German as a younger lad - all long lost skills now - but would love to get a proper handle on a different language as you say too. Portugeuse would be target.

My wfie speaks fluent French - years ago we were on a holiday in Paris and she got the ultimate compliment when the recptionist asked her what part of France she was from! She says that she sees pronunciation like being in a play on a stage - you have to throw yourself into the character and just have fun - far too many of us normal people I think just don't make the effort for fear of getting it wrong - which means we always get it wrong!

Later on that trip we were at a French restaraunt and she was blabbing away to the waiter in French He then turned to me and said something and I stared at him blankly as usual - he then realised we weren't French - so he stubbornly refused to speak to us in anything other than English from that moment on. My Wife took a similar tact but the other way around. So, I was stuck in the middle of an angry French guy insisting on speaking English and an angry Irish girl insisting on speaking French. 'Twas a weird experience!

 

[Bigfoot]

In north eastern Scotland there is Doric to contend with. This is a dialect of the Scots language with slightly different versions around Aberdeen and Dundee. I can understand quite a bit of it, but am not a speaker. The accent doesn’t make it any easier to understand. Glaswegians also seem to have their own version of English, which has made it to the east coast. Many of the words seem to be almost childish versions of the original.

One version of English I refuse to speak or write is US English. I often say that I don’t have the IQ to do that 🤣

I was once asked in France if I was Canadian.