It’s a deal - although you only got a smile out of me for that last post.That’s twice I’ve made you laugh now, if I hit three times then I think it’s time you consider making a certificate for me
There's a lot to unpack in there @Scott! Thanks for your take!!
I can see why you may have felt I was suggesting to opt for an air cooler in order to avoid the risk of an AIO failure - but I genuinely was not - as that would be silly. If an AIO is best suited to your needs then it would be foolish to get anything other than an AIO. I was interested in looking at this simply because of a couple of recent threads here relating to likely AIO failure in the last couple of days - so there certainly has been some reports - but I'm only looking at it as a pondering - not as a one in favour of the other. Statistically a couple of failures here and there is irrelevant anyway of course. Just as your personal experience with AIO's is or equally mine with air cooling.
I don't think there will be any benefit in my replying to your specific points cos it would be nothing more than a difference of opinions on minutae mostly.
But perhaps take me as an example - I have no intention to Overclock now or in the future. I have a relatively low TDP CPU and any likely future upgrades would do also. However, I had read a lot (and I do mean a lot) of reports and reviews of the 5600X running very hot with the stock AMD cooler - the Wraith Stealth - which is the most basic of the AMD bunch right now. With the low TDP go figure why those reports are out there - bad pasting perhaps, or poor installs, or something more fundamental perhaps.....but they exist nonetheless.
Given I would be seeing some multi-core work, a little extra help seemed prudent. I can't see any justification that could be presented to spend £100+ on an AIO when a £30 tower cooler would give me exactly what I need - for now and later. Whatever extra cooling I would see with an AIO would make no discernable difference to performance, or CPU or build lifespan.
All the research I have done suggests that on a scale with Stock coolers on one end and AIO's on the other, in many cases tower coolers perform closer to AIO's than to Stock, across a wide range of coolers of all types, save of course for the more extreme setups. So I do think that the cooling improvement with a tower cooler is more marked than you suggest.
But I also think that Tower Coolers can be a bit of a four-letter word sometimes here. I'm just not really convinced that should be the case. Sometimes the middle ground might actually be a perfect fit.....?
Thanks again Scott....In a contained set of circumstances I have no doubt that the aircooler is a fine fit. My comparison wasn't to the £100 offering though, as that would be the Noctua level silent offering, it was more to the Coolermaster Lite 240, which will perform as well as a H100X but be significantly cheaper. In your circumstances it would appear to be £15 wasted so it probably doesn't make any sense to get the AIO. When I'm purchasing anything, not even tech related, I like to get the most free option. The option that will not be limited should I want to change. Of course, this needs to be weighed up with the cost, but again my point here is to get a good air cooler I would personally want the Noctua.
I just think the opposite way though, I would spend the extra money to have the potential, rather than the limitations.
I wouldn't be worried about the stock cooler on the 5600X either. For a start it's meant to run warmer than the 3600(XT). Out of the people complaining of temps, what case were they running? I don't hold much confidence on those, especially if you consider that you ran yours with the fan effectively off. The Wraith is a well known decent heatsink, with only the acoustics being a known variable.
People tend not to use their own methodology and thinking when purchasing PCs. They just take whatever outlet they prefers word for everything. Unfortunately this ends up with a ton of hearsay and thigs taken as gospel when the people reciting it actually have no first hand experience of what they are talking about (again, I stress... not you).
With regards to the AIO failings..... I have a caveat..... AIO failings in coolers we would recommend. I know of the issues with the PCS offerings, we always recommend people stay away from them. There are also well known failings with the original Coolermaster 240 (non-lite). This was a design flaw and corrected with the lite model. The AIOs are much more complex so they do need to be chosen more carefully than air coolers, I would suggest that we (the collective) would help negate that problem with our advice. Of course, that doesn't cater for people who don't follow the advice or don't seek it to begin with, which further compounds the AIO hearsay as gospel.
I'm not so sure really @Ash_ - a fresh cool air supply from intakes do seem to be key for internal air cooing - and my examples certainly seem to suggest that with the CPU cooler running, the exhausts made little or no difference at all - exluding the possibly VRM implications - where the intakes alone could significantly change things. Of course with a high power GPU pumping huge amounts of heat into the case then exhausts probably would become much more important?Here is my take on it:
Exhaust fans are more important than intake. Especially for GPU temps. So you need exhaust fans regardless. If you buy a Noctua tower cooler (probably the best choice) - you have a cooler for your cpu and that is all.
You still need to go out and buy the exhaust fans etc, with some cases anyway.
Say you go H100i and compare it with a £70 Noctua... 2 ML120’s is going to set you back maybe £60, so really, you’re only paying £50 or so for the AIO.
I’ve played around with the fan setup in my case, having the more powerful ML120 elite capellix fans as my intake and less powerful ML120 RGB Pro as my exhaust, actually caused me issues with my 3070/5800X. When i adjusted the performance profiles, so the ML RGB Pro’s ran 500rpm higher than intake, my gpu temperature dropped 10 degrees. Just simply by exhausting more than intake.I'm not so sure really @Ash_ - a fresh cool air supply from intakes do seem to be key for internal air cooing - and my examples certainly seem to suggest that with the CPU cooler running, the exhausts made little or no difference at all - exluding the possibly VRM implications - where the intakes alone could significantly change things. Of course with a high power GPU pumping huge amounts of heat into the case then exhausts probably would become much more important?
A positive pressure setup seems to be the most recommeded - and in such setups the exhausts don't really add a lot other than flow control it seems.
The Noctua is king of the hill at the moment - I agree. But is far from the only choice when it comes to Towers - it leads the bunch but it isn't an order of magnitude out in front - if you know what I mean.
Last thing to add - the PCS Frostflow 100 which I have in my yoke - appears to be a rebranded ID Cooling SE-224-XT - every single detail that I can see is identical save for the PCS logo on the top and sticker on the fan spindle. PCS certainly haven't invested in a factory to make their own coolers and rebranding an existing model is what almost everyone else does anyway. All major brands buy from the same few suppliers and simply add their own branding or tweak the basic design to differentiate themselves. That goes for Towers and AIO alike. But the core components come from the same small number of places.
ID Cooling are a cheap offering out there in component land - but in a few reviews the SE-224 outperformed many well-respected alternates including the CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO. So cheap doesn't mean poor in all cases - and my point really is that in a simple and static design, such as with a Tower Cooler, cheap can also be perfectly fine!
Just re-reading that bit makes me nervous - badly written and hopefully hasn't peed anyone off.But is it sound advice to say stick with a Stock rather than a basic Tower upgrade on the basis of cooling performance alone, all other things being equal? I don't really think so....
Agree with Noctua colours! Although they do have all balck versions now. No way I could have brown and white in my case!I’ve played around with the fan setup in my case, having the more powerful ML120 elite capellix fans as my intake and less powerful ML120 RGB Pro as my exhaust, actually caused me issues with my 3070/5800X. When i adjusted the performance profiles, so the ML RGB Pro’s ran 500rpm higher than intake, my gpu temperature dropped 10 degrees. Just simply by exhausting more than intake.
To add context for that, intakes at 700rpm and outtakes at 1200rpm, my pc ran cool and silent (apart from the pump, but that is another story). As my pump is currently an issue, i upped my fans to 1500 and 1000rpm, as this is the noise level that drains the pump and the fan sound (36db) is a lot nicer than a 29db high pitched squeal, but all my temps are kept well in check (62 cpu and 65 gpu or so).
I believe Gamers Nexus (i think it was) also showed in the 5000X (i think it was) review, that 2 intake and 1 exhaust, outperforms the stock 3 intake front fans.
The differences are likely magnified as you go up components, also the PCS AIO isn’t one i’d recommend. Noctua would be my go to, but i think towers are really ugly and especially the brown and white noctua.
Noise is the missing element sometimes - you’re right. I’m sure plenty have gone cheap thinking they’re being clever only to complain later that their system is too noisy.....Interestingly though, i am sure Noctua makes a tower cooler for threadrippers .
Also i used to have an i5-7600 and that thing started running super hot, so i repasted and put the stock cooler back on, but it still fan hot (intel stock coolers are poor). So i added a Coolermaster 240 and the temps dropped from like 75 down to 40 degrees, although in fairness, the coolermaster was audible and the intel was not. The intel cooler was also so small, it wasn’t an eye sore.
Ultra quiet builds and lower than 12 cores, i would probably go Noctua’s new black one, but pcs don’t sell any Noctua at the moment (i don’t believe anyway).