My audio system, so near completion

[slimbob]

Just additionally to this, my set up is by no means optimal, it's currently in a tiny room and using the speakers nearfield on the desk, and very close to the window and curtains behind. They're really good for that use as far as 2 way bookshelves go, but they'd be far far better properly setup on stands spaced to each end of the room and brought out a little to give space behind.

I do think that the current setup will be limiting what I'm able to hear.

I'm hoping to move in a couple of years and have it all setup in the living room properly, and I have no doubt that that's going to reveal so much more of what the speakers are capable of.

But it's still excellent and leaps and bounds over anything I've previously had.

Hi,
Sorry for the delay getting back to your reply I wasn’t notified? I normally am so just checked back and saw you replied. Sorry.

The bedding in period probably depends on the speakers and different brands and models improve with running more than others. I am sure it is very subtle and most people might not even notice. But I appreciate audiophiles are a different breed!

It’s great they have sounded excellent from the very beginning and you are so happy with your setup, happy days! I agree music and coffee are a great combo aren’t they, I had to remove coffee a while back as it played havoc with my gut unfortunately, I really miss it, I was never a tea person.

It will be interesting to see the difference when you change your amp tubes and the benefit the extra power has. Yes, I understand what a difference a room can make but you just have to make the best of the environment you have. Even Michael Framer’s listening room looks not optimal and a tad messy (lol!) and his system is insane.

Plus this was 4 years ago God knows what he has now. Your future idea of moving and improving your listening room / set up must be a really motivating goal. Glad you are so happy with your speakers and system

 

[SpyderTracks]

Hi,
Sorry for the delay getting back to your reply I wasn’t notified? I normally am so just checked back and saw you replied. Sorry.

The bedding in period probably depends on the speakers and different brands and models improve with running more than others. I am sure it is very subtle and most people might not even notice. But I appreciate audiophiles are a different breed!

It’s great they have sounded excellent from the very beginning and you are so happy with your setup, happy days! I agree music and coffee are a great combo aren’t they, I had to remove coffee a while back as it played havoc with my gut unfortunately, I really miss it, I was never a tea person.

It will be interesting to see the difference when you change your amp tubes and the benefit the extra power has. Yes, I understand what a difference a room can make but you just have to make the best of the environment you have. Even Michael Framer’s listening room looks not optimal and a tad messy (lol!) and his system is insane.

Plus this was 4 years ago God knows what he has now. Your future idea of moving and improving your listening room / set up must be a really motivating goal. Glad you are so happy with your speakers and system

Oh god, that system is stunning, and refreshing to see it in an everyday room.

Worth keeping an eye out, PSAudio have just revealed their first pair of speakers, the FR30 which are estimated to cost around $35,000, Fremer is a long time friend of PSAudio and will no doubt be the first to review them in the coming weeks.

 

[slimbob]

Oh god, that system is stunning, and refreshing to see it in an everyday room.

Worth keeping an eye out, PSAudio have just revealed their first pair of speakers, the FR30 which are estimated to cost around $35,000, Fremer is a long time friend of PSAudio and will no doubt be the first to review them in the coming weeks.

I am sure he will get a pair to try out, he has a great job doesn't he, he deserves it, his passion is infectious!

 

[SpyderTracks]

Ok, so something has happened over the last few days on my system, I have no idea what but there's a definite shift in sound.

Day before yesterday I had a music session in the early evening before going to bed very early, and completely forgot to switch off my amp, so it was on all night up until I noticed yesterday evening at about 6pm. I then switched it off as Valves do degrade with on time.

Then I had a session last night from about 7:30 and immediately noticed the sound was far fuller, louder and bass is without a shadow of a doubt deeper and more defined. I thought it might just have been a one off, you know how your ears can just be more attuned some days than others.

But I've put it on tonight and it's just as full, it's noticeably "better", the sound is far richer, there's deeper extension to the base, it sounds firmer, the mids sound more "floaty", it seems to echo in your mind, don't really know how to describe it other than "dreamy", it feels like it's in my head all around, can't really notice any change in the highs.

But it's pronounced, it's not subtle. I've had to reduce the running volume by quite a margin because the bass is hitting so much harder.

I actually wonder if this may be related to the amp/valves rather than the speakers, and it's finally reaching it's break in period.

I was reading up on the break in period of the amp and they do say that the tubes generally start to settle in after about 100 hours use, so that could well line up.

 

[AgentCooper]

That sounds about right, I’ve experienced the same phenomenon with a guitar amp. After the new valves settled in a bit everything sounded warmer.

 

[SpyderTracks]

That sounds about right, I’ve experienced the same phenomenon with a guitar amp. After the new valves settled in a bit everything sounded warmer.

I knew there would be a shift, you always hear about "break in", down to things like CD players. With an analogue amp, it makes far more sense, I think the term can be bandied about sometimes for the sake of it.

But I didn't expect it to be such a significant change, I thought it would be a lot more subtle.

It's really nice. I loved the amp before, but this is a marked improvement!

 

[AgentCooper]

But I didn't expect it to be such a significant change, I thought it would be a lot more subtle.

I imagine it’ll be the circumstances that you described which have caused such a noticeable difference. The valves will have just been gently humming away overnight when you left it on. Great news, though!

 

[SpyderTracks]

So now I think my valve amp has had plenty of time to bed in, and I now know the sound the stock valves give, I got reminded that when I first got into this, I had a cheapy valve phono stage and ended up buying some old NOS (New Old Stock) valves with the idea of trying them out.

Valves all give a different sound signature. It's generally considered that old valves from say the 60's and 70's gave a warmer "tubey" sound than modern ones.

So I managed to find them.

The ones on the right in the pot are NOS The Reflector 6H23N-EB which is a Russian Military old tube, supposed to be rather good for deeper bass and remains balanced and sweet in the highs without being too hard like modern equivalents can be.

The ones on the left are 1960s NOS UK Mullards which are also very highly sought after and in relatively short supply these days I believe.

So gonna try swapping these over for a period to see what difference it makes. These are simply the power tubes, later on this year I'll be swapping out my EL34 stock tubes with some KT88 Gold Lions which should give a bit more impact to the sound also.

 

[SpyderTracks]

So, I played around with some of the above tubes last night..... lesson learnt!

Can I admit something? My amp has had a rather tragic popping in the left channel, so from reading I thought it may be the left gain tube. My gain tubes are 12AX7 which are also I think referred to as ECC83

Now I thought all the tubes I had lying around were 12AX7/ECC83..... so plugged in my Mullards in place, and they turned on literally like a light bulb, so immediately switched it back off. Turns out they're ECC88 which run off a 6 volt plate rather than the 12AX7 which run off 12V! So I'm pretty certain I've destroyed some very nice brand new NOS Mullards!

Then I read about swapping to the tube channels over to be certain its' the tube as the popping should switch channels, since I swapped them over, there's been no popping, so perhaps it was just a bad contact out of nowhere.

Lesson learnt, you have to be very careful what tubes you actually have, because although they may physically look exactly the same and have the same Pin layout, they can be entirely different ratings!!!

 

[SpyderTracks]

So I've just hunted around for some replacement 12AX7's as I'm very keen to try a bit of tube rolling, and the gain tubes on my amp supposedly give a marked sound signature change, and there are only 2 vs the 4 far more expensive EL34's in the power tubes setup.

So I've ordered two of these which are cheap and cheerful, but with excellent performance. This will be my first change of the tubes since I've had the amp, really excited to see what happens. From what I understand the stock tubes are quite clinical and don't really have that "tube warmth" that can be found with other makes:

JJ ECC803S GOLD PIN

• A quiet, clean and harmonically rich tube.
• It exhibits the most firm bass of all the JJ tubes, and the bass also seems to dig a bit deeper than with the tube’s siblings.
• The dynamics are very good. The tube is very balanced across the frequency spectrum.
• The voices have accuracy and immediacy with a soft touch of warmth which reminds of a top vinyl record playback style.
• The highs are clean and crisp. They are also a bit forward so some violin pieces are perhaps too bright, but they never get harsh or shrilled.
• The soundstage is brilliant, the instruments are every naturally depicted within it, separation of images is great. A hologram.

Resumé: The best tube in the test. Despite tt lacks the mesmerizing quality of the TAD RT011-HG it delivers more open, dynamic and cleaner sound. An excellent choice for high fidelity applications.

The best 12AX7 tubes for almost no money.

Test - review of 12AX7/ECC83/ECC803 vacuum tubes

www.audiodrom.net

 

[Scott]

On the 6v valves you tried, they shouldn't be toast. As long as they were all lit up when you switched them off they haven't burned out and should still work. The life may have reduced on them though as that would be a fair few cycles worth of additional current

 

[SpyderTracks]

On the 6v valves you tried, they shouldn't be toast. As long as they were all lit up when you switched them off they haven't burned out and should still work. The life may have reduced on them though as that would be a fair few cycles worth of additional current

Yeah, you're likely right. They were only on for about 20 seconds, but almost immediately they were like an incadescent bulb, it was obvious there was something not right But they didn't pop or phaze out before I powered it off, so hopefully like you say, just a few hours taken off the lifespan.

I don't really mind for myself as don't have a use for that bulb type anymore, but I'm sure there's some ultra elite undercover force of overseers who probably get some kind of ultrasonic alert when someone mistreats a valuable NOS tube. I'm sure they're honing down on me as we speak to punish me in the streets in front of the neighbours.

 

[SpyderTracks]

My JJ ECC803s Gold Pins turned up yesterday from The Tube Doctor in Germany but was too tired last night to give them a whirl.

Really looking forward to these, this will be the ultimate test for me to see if I can notice a difference in sound with Tubes.

The stock tubes are regarded as quite clinical and "accurate", not so tubey, whereas these, although cheap and cheerful, have a warmer presentation (*hopefully*)

 

[SpyderTracks]

The JJ's have been put in, the listening session will start in a little while.

I know this looks crazy dusty, I guarantee it isn't dust, I'm not sure what's going on there, but it doesn't look like this up close!

 

[SpyderTracks]

Started off with some Norah, first impressions right off the bat noting that these have only been running for about 30 minutes:

Lower notes are quite thin and a little cold, I'm sure that's related to burn in time same with the stocks. Highs feel more detailed, much cleaner. But mids are where it's most noticeable, it's far more in your face, certainly with Norah's voice and the guitars, it's rather nice, quite melty

Absolute kudos to @Tron1982 for the Norah reference, perfect test for this.

 

[Tron1982]

I know with what i'll test m'y "soon to be" new headphone tomorrow :3
I really admire specialized store that allow you to test gear and stuff

 

[SpyderTracks]

I know with what i'll test m'y "soon to be" new headphone tomorrow :3
I really admire specialized store that allow you to test gear and stuff

Can't wait for what you think of them, really looking forward to it

 

[Steveyg]

Man I love reading this thread but I know me if I went down this path I'd be completely broke, looks awesome

 

[SpyderTracks]

Next up... well you have to really, don't you?
This is the MoFi 2015 US Remaster which is pretty special at the worst of times.

Guitars definitely burst through, not aggressively, but they're far more pronounced overall, it's really nice. His voice is very laid back in this remaster.

Cranking for Money For Nothing - hearing the bass far more on this, very smooth.

Oh god, this sounds good!

 

[SpyderTracks]

Keeping on the Rock tip, these tubes definitely make a difference with Rock and synths sound amazing.

Next gonna move on to some trance.

Queen - A Kind Of Magic

Who Wants To Live Forever has never sounded this good.