New build for Work(Excel, VMs) & some Total War gaming

[zxspectrum_user]

Hi

Haven't bought a custom pc since 2015 (overclocked i7-4790K, 16Gb, with Nvidia GTX 980) so a rather rusty with all the possible options.
This will be for work (running big spreadsheets with real-time data, VMs) and some occasional gaming (mods of Total war mainly, rather than FPS etc). Typically run 3 monitors (2x32 1440p, 1x24 1200p or 1x42 2160p, 2x24). Have to computer on from 7am till midnight so needs to be robust.

Case
CORSAIR 5000D AIRFLOW TEMPERED GLASS GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Eight Core CPU (3.8GHz-4.7GHz/36MB CACHE/AM4)
Motherboard
ASUS® ROG STRIX X570-F GAMING (USB 3.2 Gen 2, PCIe 4.0) - ARGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
32GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3200MHz (2 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 3070 - HDMI, DP
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 7000MB/R, 5000MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RM SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H100x Hydro Cooler w/ PCS Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Price: £2,205.00 including VAT and Delivery

Price is at upper end of range I'd want to pay. Would prefer to pay more like £2k but those graphics card prices are a bit bonkers ...

Questions:
Motherboard: Given I probably only need 1 NVMe SSD (I'll fit a 1GB Samsung 850 SATA I have as backup drive), do I really need the X570 or could I just get away with the 550?

Memory:
I currently have 16Gb in my old rig and that is normally fine. Is it worth getting 32Gb? And what clock speed? 3000, 3200, 3600 etc.

Graphics card
Went for 3070. Wonder if 3060 Ti is better value. Bit concerned about both only having just 8Gb. Would AMD GC be better option? I've steered away from AMD GC's in my last build due to higher power consumption and reliability concerns.

Cooling:
My current old rig has the H100 with 2x quiet fans and has worked for 6 years so I've gone for that again. Is there a cheaper/better option for AMD processors?

Power Supply
Current rig has RM750, but that isn't available, so went for RM850. System doesn't need this much but I like to run it well below capacity given how much use it gets. Is it better to go for RMx750 or would TX series do the job?

Apologies for all the questions. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Scott]

Motherboard - You definitely don't need the STRIX. I would say the X570 is worth it given your potentially intensive use. Couple that with being able to add a second full speed M2 drive and I think the difference is worth it.

RAM - It depends on the quantity of VMs you want to utilise and how much RAM you want to allocate. In your shoes I would personally opt for 2x16GB 3600Mhz. It's known stable and it is as fast as you can get.

Occasional gaming at 1440p has the 3060Ti all over it. The only trouble is the wait times for the GPU. The 3070 is more readily available right now. For casual gaming I would say the 3060 would have you covered, I believe the Total War games are more CPU intensive anyway and not really about the high FPS count. It's all a juggle of lead time, availability and cost though so it really has to be your own decision. I don't think you would go wrong with either offering.

I wouldn't recommend the H100X with quiet fans. Better to get the capellix H115i right off the bat. It's silent as it is and it's the latest standard. It's very pretty too and will pair nicely with the airflow case.

RM850 or RMx850 would be my choice. Both are excellent PSUs. In your shoes I would pay the extra for the "x". It has more premium components and will offer more headroom and longevity given your uses. Hindsight is 2020, you know you can't go wrong with the RMx.

 

[Ash_]

With the airflow, i’d always recommend adding the extra 3 fans. Other than that... what Scott said.

 

[zxspectrum_user]

Thanks very much for the responses.

@Scott. So when you say keep the 570 but drop the STRIX, does that mean go for the TUF X570 or Gigabyte X570?

I went for the STRIX because of SupremeFX (my old Maximus Ranger VII board has this and seems good sound-wise) and also because it has one USB-C. Other than that it does seem OTT. Do you know if the TUF and Gigabyte boards have decent (but not necessarily amazing) sound and USB-C?

With regard to the cooler, I want as silent as possible but can you turn off the RGB stuff on the H115i? I'm modestly allergic to RGB bling (I admit I'm unfashionable).

3060Ti does seem better value. If it was available I'd downgrade from the 70 to the 60Ti but seems prices only go up and availability down.

My RM750 seems to have survived pretty well (finding piece of wood to touch) but if RMx is more reliable then it's a rounding error price-wise so good idea.

Case-wise, I would really prefer something like a Fractal Define 7, rather than Corsair 5000D Airflow, but PCS case choices seem a bit limited right now. There is nothing it seems with both 5.25 and USB-C at the same time. I'm old enough to still think an internal DVD player is useful!

Thanks again.

 

[Ash_]

Don't get the gigabyte board, it is very poor and i wish they would take it off as an option.

 

[Bigfoot]

You can turn off the RGB on the cooler fans using iCue.

 

[zxspectrum_user]

@Ash. So seems ASUS TUF 570 it is then.
@Bigfoot. Well that's solved that then.

Thanks

 

[Citrus_9]

@Ash. So seems ASUS TUF 570 it is then.
@Bigfoot. Well that's solved that then.

Thanks

Not sure if above already covered, but noticed a wifi card isn't chosen - just point that out in case needed.

 

[zxspectrum_user]

Apologies but back again.

So based on advice, I downgraded my motherboard to a 570 Strix to 570 Tuf, changed cooler to a Corsair H115i, changed memory from 3200 to 3600 and upgraded PSU from RM850 to RMx850. Still deliberating whether I'm overspeccing the GPU with a 3070 (usually do).

I've noticed the spread in price between the 5800X and 5900X has dropped to around £100 so I'm tempted to upgrade. There might be issues with availability but not in a huge rush. Would the 5900X benefit from the 570 ROG Strix motherboard or can I still use the 570 Tuf?

What is a good case for this sort of machine? I've specced the Corsair 5000 Airflow but that's due to PCS having limited choices. My primary objectives are good airflow and low noise. No interest in aesthetics like RGB and I've sort of given up on the 5.25" bay for an DVD since so few cases seem to have these any more. Could I get away with a smaller case like the 4000D Airflow? I will be adding an extra NVMe SSD myself to the build and possibly one old SATA SSD so I don't need huge numbers of drive bays.

Anyone have an idea how a 4000D or 5000D Airflow with the above build would compare to my current build which has a Obsidian 650D Airflow case, with i-4770K, GTX 980, H100x AIO cooler and 2 120mm fans, in terms of airflow, temp and noise. I really don't want the new machine any noisier than the current one.

Or is there another case I can get externally and deliver to PCS that might be better?

 

[Ash_]

4000D and 5000D are excellent choices, i have a 4000D and the thing is brilliant, but i’d probably rate the 5000D above it - it is a bit bigger etc, but if that isn’t an issue, it slightly edges it imo.

For a 5900X, with a H115i that will be fine, but you’d want the strix, but i do prefer the strix overall and would actually lean towards it, as long as your are happy to pay the £50 more or so. My preference to strix though is based of aesthetics, build quality and i believe the Strix (maybe not this one) shows the temperature.

If it is less than £100 and £50 for the board, i can’t lie... i’d go for it personally but, i’m a computer snob and like bells and whistles 🤣

 

[zxspectrum_user]

Thanks for that reply. I do "feel" the 4000D is a bit small compared to cases for my prior two builds but those did have more drives (SDD, 2 HDD, DVD and a SATA dock) and extra front ports. In comparison, I can't see this build ever having more than 2 NVMe and one SATA SDD. Plus I don't use the front ports any more. I use the USB hub on one of my monitors.

I think what is somewhat bothering me is that I'm also a computer snob. I like a nice system but comparing this build, costing £2200-£2300, with my last two builds in 2015 (£1700 from Scan) and 2009 (£2100 from Chillblast) I don't feel I'm getting the same level of "step-up" over 6 years. It's not specific to PCS but it feels there is something of a squeeze higher on prices of various components, combined with a slowing down of improvements. Like my memory is going 4gb (2009) -> 16gb (2015) -> 32gb (2021), GPU from 1gb (2009) -> 4gb (2015) -> 8gb (2021). SDD 64gb (2009), 512gb (2015), 1gb (2021) etc

A least a 5900X would give me multi-core capability at possibly 4x my current i7-4770K. Of course I don't need any of this. I suspect a 5800X (even 5600X), 3060Ti (even 3060), and 16gb 3200Mhz would suffice. But, honestly, who really wants "good enough"!

 

[Ash_]

Unfortunately the world shortages of components is pushing prices up, so everything is a lot more expensive - sort of a hyperinflation, so a £2300 computer is only actually an £1800 computer in real terms.

If you feel that way and are capable of holding out, Zen4 is due at the end of the year or something and that is rumoured to be a new socket, pcie5 (really not sure about this and if true... will be mind blowing expensive) and DDR5 (will be very niche, as 6000mhz @ CL80 is not going to be good for gaming etc 🤣).

However, zen3 will absolutely blow away your current rig and on paper it may not seem like a dramatic improvement, but i went from 7th gen to 5800X and it is another level entirely.

 

[Scott]

You sound exactly like me. So, I'll keep it short.

5900X
Strix Motherboard
32GB 3600Mhz RAM
980 pro 500GB M2
1TB Corsair M2
850w RMx
H115i Capellix

Those would be my main choices.

With the case, I think the 4000X actually covers your wants best. The 5000X would offer larger space but not more airflow. It's more premium, but has more premium features that won't make any odds to you.

With the GPU, I'm aiming for high end VR so I always opt much higher than I would game on a panel at. For your uses I genuinely believe the 3060 has you covered. The 3060Ti would be a better performing choice for those occasional gaming sessions. The 3070 is significant overkill for your uses and I wouldn't buy it even with the "want" screaming at you. The want will still be there when the 4070 comes out, save now.... buy then. Sensible choice here is the 3060, "want" choice is the 3060Ti...... 3070 is a poor choice IMO.

 

[zxspectrum_user]

I hear you.

On the GPU side, what I'm seeing on the net, implies that for Total War: Three Kingdoms (a 2019 game), at Ultra settings the 3070 got you 68fps at 1440p, the 3060Ti 59fps and the 3060 47fps. Dialling down settings to High, got the 3060 back to 65fps at 1440p. While I think 65fps at High is perfectly tolerable, I've found that once you add mods (big texture packs) this can drop off quite sharply and I never play the vanilla game. My gut feel is the 3060Ti is the sweet spot but, unfortunately, everyone seems to have to come to the same conclusion.

Clearly the 3060 would be an ok stop-gap for a year or two, especially when combined with an AMD 5800X/5900X and fast RAM to reduce the usual CPU bottleneck. Moroever, the longevity of the 3060Ti/3070 is arguable. At 60-70 fps and with 8gb RAM they don't have that much headroom if the next gen TW games are even more onerous. Part of me thinks I should just buy the PC ex GPU, fit the 980 out of my current one and just play the older TW games until a 3070Ti/3080Ti/4070 comes out.

Of course, I could argue (and I do ...) that a couple of grand for my hobby over 5 years is just a drop in the ocean compared to other costs (children please stand up). My hobby could be fast women and fast cars. Luckily I don't like fast cars ...

 

[Ash_]

If you are worried about VRAM... 6700XT

 

[zxspectrum_user]

I did look at a 6700XT but, historically at least, AMD cards haven't performed the best for Total War games. The only benchmarks I can find suggest the 6700XT underperforms the 3060Ti by about 10% in Total War: Troy and is 5% weaker on Total War: 3 Kingdoms.

The main reason I was going for the 3070 was that when I did my quote (Friday morning), the spread between the 3060 and 3070 was £150 which I thought was good value for a card that delivered 40-50% higher fps in 1440p. It was also a better spread than Scan 3XS (£210) or Chillblast (£241).

I've checked again today and, for my same build, the 3060-3070 spread is £319. The 3060 is down £40 and the 3070 is up £129. That's more than doubled in less than 48 hours. Not sure I'd go with 3070 at that price.

Is there any clear reason for that? Could it be that the 3070 was say a cheaper Zotac but now might be a Gigabyte or something. I noted over the last few weeks that, while PCS prices are generally lower than Scan or Chillblast for my build, they really whip around on almost daily basis.

 

[Ash_]

3070 prices on PCS are wild for some reason and that has been happening for the last two weeks or so i believe.

In a game where VRAM utilisation is high, if you hit that usage and the card doesn’t have the ram available... the performance will drop significantly. The way around that is normally to just set graphics to be within limits and most games can’t exceed 8GB anyway. So assuming a game does need 12GB VRAM a 6700XT will kill a 3070 - these games are extremely rare though and makes high VRAM extremely niche.