RECOIL III - i7-9750h & 2070 RTX : Temps problem

[Oussebon]

The frequencies are normally lowered before the point at which we usually think of thermal throttling (i.e. hitting 100 degrees and nerfing frequencies to prevent damage). As Kitguru put it:

Starting with the CPU, a peak of just 81C is a top result, and that is only furthered by the fact that this temperature came with the CPU clock speed holding at 3.1GHz across all cores. The GS65, for instance, could only push all 6 cores to 2.8GHz, and even then the CPU still peaked at 85C.

PC Specialist Recoil II (i7-8750H & GTX 1060) Laptop Review - KitGuru

The PC Specialist Recoil II is the latest laptop to come through our labs sporting an Intel 8th Gen

www.kitguru.net

PC Specialist 15.6" Recoil III GTX

Core i7-9750H and GeForce GTX 1660 Ti go mobile.

hexus.net

That may be power limits plus anything else Tongfang etc put in their BIOS to premptively manage frequencies before they get too toasty. As well as relatively capable cooling compared to other chassis apparently.

So this person's Recoil seems the exception.

1) The OPS didn't mention what load conditions they've tested the laptop in since they got it back, but if it's just gaming, PCS can't really put laptops out to review and create an expectation of temps in the 80s or even lower under intensive real-life workloads and say "oh, yeah, upto 98 degrees, that's cool"

2) The initial RMA was with temps of upto 99 degrees, so that seemed to be something PCS agreed was probably not okay. But 98 degrees after a repaste is okay?

3) PCS's RMA ticket claimed lower temps. That's not what the OP's seeing it seems.

4) PCS seem to be blaming the Recoil as "it's a thin laptop, what do you expect" whereas the Recoil, as per forum reports and reviews like the above, has consistently been a better performer thermally than Clevos.

If I were the OP I'd return for a refund if at all possible, and review my options. If my laptop was behaving worse than apparently everyone else's, I wouldn't consider that satisfactory.

 

[Peterkse]

The frequencies are normally lowered before the point at which we usually think of thermal throttling (i.e. hitting 100 degrees and nerfing frequencies to prevent damage). As Kitguru put it:

PC Specialist Recoil II (i7-8750H & GTX 1060) Laptop Review - KitGuru

The PC Specialist Recoil II is the latest laptop to come through our labs sporting an Intel 8th Gen

www.kitguru.net

PC Specialist 15.6" Recoil III GTX

Core i7-9750H and GeForce GTX 1660 Ti go mobile.

hexus.net

That may be power limits plus anything else Tongfang etc put in their BIOS to premptively manage frequencies before they get too toasty. As well as relatively capable cooling compared to other chassis apparently.

So this person's Recoil seems the exception.

1) The OPS didn't mention what load conditions they've tested the laptop in since they got it back, but if it's just gaming, PCS can't really put laptops out to review and create an expectation of temps in the 80s or even lower under intensive real-life workloads and say "oh, yeah, upto 98 degrees, that's cool"

2) The initial RMA was with temps of upto 99 degrees, so that seemed to be something PCS agreed was probably not okay. But 98 degrees after a repaste is okay?

3) PCS's RMA ticket claimed lower temps. That's not what the OP's seeing it seems.

4) PCS seem to be blaming the Recoil as "it's a thin laptop, what do you expect" whereas the Recoil, as per forum reports and reviews like the above, has consistently been a better performer thermally than Clevos.

If I were the OP I'd return for a refund if at all possible, and review my options. If my laptop was behaving worse than apparently everyone else's, I wouldn't consider that satisfactory.

It was just after 1 hour playing one game. No other programs in background only CPUID monitor. game mode ON, laptop sitting on cooling pad (Laptop Cooling Pad 12"-17.3", Ultra Quiet Laptop Cooler Stand with 5 Fans at 2200RPM)
PCS response ''There is, unfortunately, nothing we can do about it. ''
So it looks like I got my self very expensive ........

Shame I missed right to cancel an order (the contract) within 14 days without giving any reason .
I would be more than happy to go for even more exensive laptop or even desktop just not to be stuck with bbq

 

[Oussebon]

If it's faulty, which I'd argue it is given the difference with samples PCS have sent out to reviewers, you should probably still request a refund.

It's not a question of a more expensive laptop, the Recoil - as far as any of us here can see - should be just fine with temps.

A desktop is always preferable from a thermals, performance, and upgrades point of view (though obviously not from a portability point of view...)

 

[Peterkse]

just now after cca 45 min of playing. I dont get it. How is this normal

 

[bravel]

Hi,

Sorry, I went on holidays, couldn't get back to the forums.
Thanks all for your answers, I still got temps problems after repasting. I need to reduce performance to get better temps, which is really abnormal.
I am willing about requesting a complete refund, because this laptop won't live more than three years with such high temps on hardware.
I also get higher temps when I do play games, which can get really, really hot, up to 98/100°C if I don't tune CPU.

 

[Peterkse]

Got response from PCS

“thanks for getting in touch with us.
As Shepard has posted on the forum, this kind of temperatures is not fixable through us. It is a design detail with the slimmer laptops.
If we can assist you any further, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Many Thanks”

Thank you all for your help. I will consider the next action I take.

 

[Oussebon]

I think my next step would be to make a pretty massive fuss, for the reasons outlined above.

Their point would be valid if it applied to another chassis.

I'd be unlikely to buy anything from PCS ever again if they said that to me tbh... it's pretty appalling.

 

[Peterkse]

This was my 3th machine from PCS and LAST one. I'm furious!

 

[Oussebon]

Just wondering if anything happened with this in the end?

 

[SpyderTracks]

Just wondering if anything happened with this in the end?

I’d be interested as well.

 

[Peterkse]

Hi all.
Well you have seen the response from PCS.
'' this kind of temperatures is not fixable through us. It is a design detail with the slimmer laptops. ''
I have decided to give this expensive piece of junk laptop to my daughter to play Roblox. Core TEMP should copy with that game.
And I'll buy proper pc/laptop elsewhere.
IF you read this and doing research about RECOIL RTX my advice to you is DON'T BUY IT!
CPU reaching 99 degrees with cooling pad and so called high grade thermal paste is not acceptable!

 

[ubuysa]

Hi all.
Well you have seen the response from PCS.
'' this kind of temperatures is not fixable through us. It is a design detail with the slimmer laptops. ''
I have decided to give this expensive piece of junk laptop to my daughter to play Roblox. Core TEMP should copy with that game.
And I'll buy proper pc/laptop elsewhere.
IF you read this and doing research about RECOIL RTX my advice to you is DON'T BUY IT!
CPU reaching 99 degrees with cooling pad and so called high grade thermal paste is not acceptable!

You cannot have a light, slim, gaming laptop. Period. The laws of physics simply don't allow the removal of the heat generated by high-end CPUs/GPUs working hard in a laptop chassis with almost no internal volume and where there's no room to fit a fan big enough or powerful enough to suck that heat out. I would go further than you have here, and say don't buy any slim and lightweight laptop and expect to game hard on it.

All laptops are a compromise and you need to be prepared to accept that compromise before you buy.

 

[Oussebon]

ou cannot have a light, slim, gaming laptop. Period.

I knew someone would say this:

Please refer to:

RECOIL III - i7-9750h & 2070 RTX : Temps problem

The frequencies are normally lowered before the point at which we usually think of thermal throttling (i.e. hitting 100 degrees and nerfing frequencies to prevent damage). As Kitguru put it: Starting with the CPU, a peak of just 81C is a top result, and that is only furthered by the fact that...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

The Recoil has always been fine with its temps.

 

[ubuysa]

I knew someone would say this:

Please refer to:

RECOIL III - i7-9750h & 2070 RTX : Temps problem

The frequencies are normally lowered before the point at which we usually think of thermal throttling (i.e. hitting 100 degrees and nerfing frequencies to prevent damage). As Kitguru put it: Starting with the CPU, a peak of just 81C is a top result, and that is only furthered by the fact that...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

The Recoil has always been fine with its temps.

I said it because it's true. As Scotty would say "you cannot beat the laws of physics".

 

[Oussebon]

Indeed you can't. And the evidence clearly shows the Recoil has always been fine with its temps.

You can't beat the evidence either.

The OP's laptop is one of the few, rare exceptions to this and PCS's response isn't good enough.

 

[ubuysa]

And the evidence clearly shows the Recoil has always been fine with its temps.

You can't beat the evidence either.

The OP's laptop is one of the few, rare exceptions to this and PCS's response isn't good enough.

Well that's not what Shepard says in post #34 (my highlighting)...

Hi Peterkse,

I have spoken with our management and the technicians on your behalf, as you are not the only customer to be concerned about the high temperatures. Or official statement in regard to the Recoil Laptop is as follows:

It is usual for this chassis to run at a higher temp as a trade-off to achieve a powerful spec and thin design. Anything up to 100C CPU temp is acceptable and will not reduce the lifespan of the laptop. This laptop features a slim profile, a high specification and meets all of the thermal requirements for heat dissipation. However, due to the slim design, it will not as efficient at removing heat when compared the thicker chassis which have larger fans and heatsinks, and may, therefore, run hotter than some of our other high-performance models.

Have a great Monday,
Shep

In any case, my general comment above (which I've made before as you well know) still stands. ALL laptops are a compromise, there is no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[Oussebon]

They are a compromise. The Recoil seems to achieve its solid thermal performance through a decent albeit loud cooling system, and it also throttles CPU boost clocks under load, but still, - according to independent reviewers - maintains lower temps and higher boost clocks than many competing models, despite being in a relatively thin chassis.

Other compromises include battery life, not having as developed a level of support in Linux, and the fact that it's laptop level components, not desktop ones.

I don't think there's much I can add to what I've already said above, and the evidence I've linked to. It speaks for itself and I'll take the word of many independent reviewers, and many consumers on this forum, over what PCS have to say tbh.

The only point I'd underline is that PCS sending out laptops for review, having them perform at a certain level thermally, and then claiming temps 15-20+ degrees higher under less demanding loads is totally normal is really not something any consumer should find acceptable. It's dangerously close to bait and switch.

It may not be their fault. Perhaps a new BIOS or Tongfang Gaming Centre update changed cooling profiles or the power limits or other behaviour of the CPU. Or perhaps the person in question just has a bad unit. But the fact remains that PCS are way off the mark in what they are claiming is normal, versus what independent reviewers they send their laptops to have found to be normal, and what the majority of other consumers posting here have found to be normal.

In terms of a free lunch, the OP didn't get a free lunch. They paid for a very expensive lunch which was not served as per the expectations set by the restaurant. I wouldn't dine again there either.

 

[Oussebon]

I'd add, if we can't trust independent reviews of PCS from hardware media sites, and from other consumers, we can't trust this either:

PC Specialist Ltd is rated "Excellent" with 4.6 / 5 on Trustpilot

Do you agree with PC Specialist Ltd's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 40,772 customers have already said.

uk.trustpilot.com

But I do trust the 9.4 rating, despite the concerning issues in this thread, which still seem to be the exception rather than the norm.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I would wholeheartedly agree that there should not be temps this sort on this chassis and if there are then it’s a fault, not normal running.

 

[phitol]

[edit] - My post was a bit TLDR!

In the first OP:

In that image, XTU shows short term Turbo TDP @ 90W,. that most certainly would explain short term spikes to thermal throttling.

I was in XTU last night on my 9750H Defiance V and the short term turbo TDP is 78W, if that was 90W, I'm sure I'd be seeing spikes of thermal throttling as well.

Mind you, the whole TDP thing is messed up. I think there is some weird interaction with Windows and Clevo Control Centre, if I flip between power saving and performance and reboot in between, I sometimes get the normal TDP set to 30W, sometimes 45W, clearly that has a big effect on overall temperatures and clock speeds.

I'd say from my experience with laptops like the Alienware m15 which also push TDP and suffer with thermal throttling more often, manufacturers seem to have cottoned on and careful TDP limiting is used to reduce thermal spikes etc, as reviewers tend to focus on temperatures rather than overall performance, where you also see quite a swing in performance, and as JarrodTech found out reviewing the P960 clevo, he also had the issue the TDP was locked at 30W giving awesome thermals but poorer performance, he had to re-test it when he did a fresh install and had the TDP back to 45W.