Swapping Boot SSD

GidRea

Bronze Level Poster
Hi, here I sit with my new delivery from PCS (spec posted below). The spec was very helpfully evolved on this forum, and included a fast, bigger SSD for boot, and a smaller, slower one for a video edit scratch drive. No HDD (I have one already), and no OS (I have a license to transfer as its precedessor PC failed). I was aware that PCS leave a trial, unlicensed, W10 on-board after testing, which suited me perfectly as it saves me work and a big download on my sHaKeY mobile internet.

Well, it arrived, and it works, but for some reason PCS have set up the second (and it is second!) slower SSD as the boot disk, leaving the nice fast one blank. Doh!

Q1: To what extent will the commissioning W10 be "nicely" set up for the specific configuration, as against W10 simply sorting itself automatically? In other words, will what's on the slower SSD be better than I'll get with a fresh install (me being a bit of a duffer)?

Q2: Is there a sensible process I can follow to swap over the Windows installation (and C: status) from the slower SSD to the good one?

I won't have any immediate need to use the slower SSD afterwards, I could leave it out for some while, or (can I?) disable it in BIOS.

Hoping for help.

Cheers, Gideon

Spec
===
Case
CORSAIR 4000D AIRFLOW TEMPERED GLASS GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 5800X Eight Core CPU (3.8GHz-4.7GHz/36MB CACHE/AM4)
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF X570-PLUS GAMING (USB 3.2 Gen 2, PCIe 4.0, CrossFireX) - ARGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3600MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
6GB ASUS DUAL GEFORCE RTX 2060 - HDMI, DP, DVI
1st M.2 SSD Drive
500GB SAMSUNG 980 PRO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 6900MB/R, 5000MB/W)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
256GB PCS PCIe M.2 SSD (1900 MB/R, 1100 MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H100x Hydro Cooler w/ PCS Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
2 PORT (1 x TYPE A, 1 x TYPE C) USB 3.1 PCI-E CARD + STANDARD USB PORTS
Operating System
NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
NO RECOVERY MEDIA REQUIRED
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 14 to 17 working days
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book - United Kingdom & Republic of Ireland
Logo Branding
PCSpecialist Logo
 
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Martinr36

MOST VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
Follow these instructions to do a clean install

Download a new copy of Windows using the Media Creation Tool to an 8GB (min) USB.
Boot that USB and choose a Custom Install.
Delete all UEFI partitions on the system drive (EFI System, Recovery, MSR Reserved, Primary).
Select the unallocated space that results and click the Next button. The installer will create the correct partitions and install Windows.
Run Windows Update repeatedly, even across reboots, until no more updates are found.
You may need/want to download and install the latest graphics driver from the Nvidia/AMD website (they change so regularly the latest version isn't always in the Windows libraries).
 

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
The test system is exactly that. A system used for testing. Boot your Windows install media and use that to delete all existing partitions on all drives, then install to your favoured drive.
 

GidRea

Bronze Level Poster
Fortunately (or at least, labour-savingly), before I had a chance to install my newly made install media, Rhys at PCS came through with this much quicker solution:

"The location of the OS ... your Samsung SSD qualifying for the data migration tool. You can find the software by using this link and selecting the Consumer version of the migration software: https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/minisite/ssd/download/tools/",

Which worked a treat.
 

TonyCarter

VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
That's only to transfer your data/apps...you still have to buy a legit W10 licence and follow the above steps to get your initial W10 install anyway.

In case you didn't read it, or chose to ignore it...THE TEST SYSTEM IS NOT A FULLY-FUNCTIONAL W10 INSTALL!
 

GidRea

Bronze Level Poster
Hi Guys (well, so I suspect :)), back for more gen. I've had more through from PCS support, and I read through a very similar - but not identical - PCS forum query to this, which ranged a lot wider. As things stand, I can go either way, and I'm under no pressure to finish off getting this thing into service. All I've done so far is migrated the test install to the fast SSD and activated it. No bridges burnt, little time invested. So I want to fully understand the contradictory advice I'm getting.

Just a few things to rule out from the discussion:
  1. I am only interested in Windows Home. I've never mentioned Pro, I don't have it, I don't want it. Other thread said Test Installation is Home too.
  2. Activation isn't an issue, I understand the test install wasn't activated, I have now activated it, wholly legitimately.
  3. Contrary to Tony's 5:04pm last night, the Samsung tool migrated the whole shebang, and now the PC is booting off, and has as C:, the faster SSD. I think that's what tool is for, so they can sell us new boot drives? Anyway, which drive isn't important to this refreshed query.
  4. I retract my "Doh!". I'm quite prepared to believe that PCS put the test OS deliberately on the slow SSD so it was out of my way of whatever I put on.
But, there remains the point, clear in advice above, that the PCS test installation is somehow inferior to one I put on myself. And I'd like to understand why?
  1. Test Install is claiming to be Windows 10.0.17043, I see elsewhere that's 23rd Sept 2021. A month old. If I had a physical media (do they still exist?), it'd be older. If I use one I downloaded (which takes five hours here), it may or may not be more recent. Anyway, the Test Installation isn't ancient... or is this report deceptive, a product of multiple updates?
  2. It may not have the latest drivers for the Gfx card (Although one might wonder if PCS wanted to test with those?). But as Martin advises above, that applies to even a fresh download of Windows from MS. So either way, I should do as Martin says, and get the latest.
  3. PCS support are quite happy with me using the Test Installation, provided it's activated. Is there something they're overlooking?
I'm not expert enough to tell if it's running optimally. But, same applies if I make a fresh download. Is there some way that PCS could deliberately, or as a testing by-product, screw their installation, making it worse than a fresh one? Special test drivers perhaps?

So, c'mon guys, can you be specific & say what exactly is the problematic, or potentially problematic, feature of the test installation?

And don't get grouchy on me!
 

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
We have had countless niggtly issues reported by people over many years, all of whom had activated the testing system. All problems were resolved by a clean install. We therefore regularly and consistently advise against activating the testing system.

TBH if you buy a system with 'no OS' you should expect to have to install your own OS. Activating a system that you happen to find on your drives is not just unwise, it's bad practice.

I'm fond of pointing out that there are no shortcuts, and since your OS is the foundation on which your entire system is built, it's essential that you are certain that you have a complete and stable OS installed. Unless you buy a license from PCS and have them properly install it, you really must install your own copy.
 
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Martinr36

MOST VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
We have had countless niggtly issues reported by people over many years, all of whom had activated the testing system. All problems were resolved by a clean I install. We therefore regularly and consistently advise against activating the testing system.

TBH if you buy a system with 'no OS' you should expect to have to install your own OS. Activating a system that you happen to find on your drives is not just unwise, it's bad practice.

I'm fond of pointing out that there are no shortcuts, and since your OS is the foundation on which your entire system is built, it's essential that you are certain that you have a complete and stable OS installed. Unless you buy a license from PCS and have them properly install it, you really must install your own copy.
Very well explained (y)
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Hi Guys (well, so I suspect :)), back for more gen. I've had more through from PCS support, and I read through a very similar - but not identical - PCS forum query to this, which ranged a lot wider. As things stand, I can go either way, and I'm under no pressure to finish off getting this thing into service. All I've done so far is migrated the test install to the fast SSD and activated it. No bridges burnt, little time invested. So I want to fully understand the contradictory advice I'm getting.

Just a few things to rule out from the discussion:
  1. I am only interested in Windows Home. I've never mentioned Pro, I don't have it, I don't want it. Other thread said Test Installation is Home too.
  2. Activation isn't an issue, I understand the test install wasn't activated, I have now activated it, wholly legitimately.
  3. Contrary to Tony's 5:04pm last night, the Samsung tool migrated the whole shebang, and now the PC is booting off, and has as C:, the faster SSD. I think that's what tool is for, so they can sell us new boot drives? Anyway, which drive isn't important to this refreshed query.
  4. I retract my "Doh!". I'm quite prepared to believe that PCS put the test OS deliberately on the slow SSD so it was out of my way of whatever I put on.
But, there remains the point, clear in advice above, that the PCS test installation is somehow inferior to one I put on myself. And I'd like to understand why?
  1. Test Install is claiming to be Windows 10.0.17043, I see elsewhere that's 23rd Sept 2021. A month old. If I had a physical media (do they still exist?), it'd be older. If I use one I downloaded (which takes five hours here), it may or may not be more recent. Anyway, the Test Installation isn't ancient... or is this report deceptive, a product of multiple updates?
  2. It may not have the latest drivers for the Gfx card (Although one might wonder if PCS wanted to test with those?). But as Martin advises above, that applies to even a fresh download of Windows from MS. So either way, I should do as Martin says, and get the latest.
  3. PCS support are quite happy with me using the Test Installation, provided it's activated. Is there something they're overlooking?
I'm not expert enough to tell if it's running optimally. But, same applies if I make a fresh download. Is there some way that PCS could deliberately, or as a testing by-product, screw their installation, making it worse than a fresh one? Special test drivers perhaps?

So, c'mon guys, can you be specific & say what exactly is the problematic, or potentially problematic, feature of the test installation?

And don't get grouchy on me!
A test install is just that, it's not configured fully and doesn't have the correct drivers. As such you will see instability and BSODS.

The work you've done so far it would have been a lot quicker just to clean install anyway, takes about 30 mins.
 

GidRea

Bronze Level Poster
Thanks for answers folks. I guess in summary it's a statistical observation of past troubles, which is fair enough.

"not configured fully and doesn't have the correct drivers" - ah, do you mean it's some kind of cloned OS, hasn't been given the chance to properly install & configure itself?

AFAIK, and I could be very wrong, W10 should in the main install & configure itself? I shouldn't need to list out every peripheral or subsystem and manually hunt down the correct driver for it on this motherboard..... should I? (Exception Gfx card).

"The work you've done so far it would have been a lot quicker just to clean install anyway, takes about 30 mins.". Ah, you with fast broadband. You're quite wrong, I did it all, could have done it over and over, while waiting the 5 hours (plus whatever overnight) for the W10 download.

Thanks again. Guess I might get on with it this evening.
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
AFAIK, and I could be very wrong, W10 should in the main install & configure itself?
That's only if it's installed in the normal method.

PcS machines aren't installed the way you or I do, they use a corporate system called SCSM which applies a configured image directly to the drive. It's just configured with generic drivers.

So no, it won't automatically configure. You will face instability if you use it.
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
The work you've done so far it would have been a lot quicker just to clean install anyway, takes about 30 mins.". Ah, you with fast broadband. You're quite wrong, I did it all, could have done it over and over, while waiting the 5 hours (plus whatever overnight) for the W10 download.
Lots? We're you using this new PC to download? No broadband would be that slow. Unless you're still on dial up?
 

GidRea

Bronze Level Poster
Ah, that makes sense, about the OEM config system. Perhaps PCS tech support could be on-side too?

Dial-up - Nope. We moved house 18 months ago, being both a bit skint and expecting to be away a lot (ahem, pre Covid). The cheapest BB deal I found was 3 Mobile BB, unrestricted, 2 year deal @ £15/mo.

At times it is actually ok, but in afternoons and evenings when all the teens watch movies on their phones it is achingly slow. It's not so much a question of bitrate, it's the latency that's awful. It even often loses messages, I mean some client here tries to send a request, and it simply never gets a reply. Whether it's throttled or 4G network overload or back-haul overload I don't know. We have a good signal, good aerial, and jolly good commercial standard Draytek multi-mode router. It's a 1Km jog to the mast, through lightly populated suburb. In fact teens are scarce here, it's more a retirement zone, I shouldn't blame the yoof!

I did the download on an old dog PC, otherwise I couldn't mess about with the new one.

I can't recall if 56k was faster, it was certainly more reliable!
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
Ah, that makes sense, about the OEM config system. Perhaps PCS tech support could be on-side too?

Dial-up - Nope. We moved house 18 months ago, being both a bit skint and expecting to be away a lot (ahem, pre Covid). The cheapest BB deal I found was 3 Mobile BB, unrestricted, 2 year deal @ £15/mo.

At times it is actually ok, but in afternoons and evenings when all the teens watch movies on their phones it is achingly slow. It's not so much a question of bitrate, it's the latency that's awful. It even often loses messages, I mean some client here tries to send a request, and it simply never gets a reply. Whether it's throttled or 4G network overload or back-haul overload I don't know. We have a good signal, good aerial, and jolly good commercial standard Draytek multi-mode router. It's a 1Km jog to the mast, through lightly populated suburb. In fact teens are scarce here, it's more a retirement zone, I shouldn't blame the yoof!

I did the download on an old dog PC, otherwise I couldn't mess about with the new one.

I can't recall if 56k was faster, it was certainly more reliable!
We've had this discussion with PCS already. Their view is that the testing system should work OK, though it will need configuring and updating. However, as mentioned, many people seem to have problems with it. In addition (and perhaps more importantly) it's unwise in the extreme to use an OS that was installed for a single very specific purpose. Its just not good practice.
 

GidRea

Bronze Level Poster
No wonder it wuz cheap!

Now, to what looks to me like a problem, relating to my original post.

Remember, as above, I had previously cloned PCS test installation from the slow SSD to the fast SSD, so it was on both.

I just did the initial setup of Windows from the media, as discussed above.
  1. Booted off the flash stick with install on.
  2. As suggested above, on fast SSD, deleted all the partitions EFI etc and the main one, then selected it as target.
  3. Of we go, and, soon, here is Windows working. Jolly good.
  4. On boot, something asks if I want to boot W10 off Volume 2 or Volume 6.
    Well, that's not surprising, the test installation is still on the slow SSD.
    My new install, it becomes obvious, is on Volume 2, and is the default, good.
  5. So, after a little testing, I think "time to clear out that slow SSD", get rid of the test installation....
Oh dear. According to "Disk Management", while C: and Windows, and my booting (AFAIK) is off the fast SSD, that contains only the one partition (Boot, Page File, Crash Dump, Basic Data). No EFI System Partition, no Recovery Partition. Whereas the slow SSD has those, and a Basic Data Partition (I guess/recall "Boot" would only be shown if it was booted off it).

That looks wrong to me? Has Windows installer presumed that as they exist somewhere, I want to keep those?

What are the implications?

I suspect I should start over, initially clearing both SSDs?

Advice appreciated.

I'll go and do the washing up (yes, I know, we haven't got one).
 

Martinr36

MOST VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
follow this procedure and when you delete partitions do it on both discs, then install to the fastest drive, not forgetting this will delete ALL data from both discs

Download a new copy of Windows using the Media Creation Tool to an 8GB (min) USB.
Boot that USB and choose a Custom Install.
Delete all UEFI partitions on the system drive (EFI System, Recovery, MSR Reserved, Primary).
Select the unallocated space that results and click the Next button. The installer will create the correct partitions and install Windows.
Run Windows Update repeatedly, even across reboots, until no more updates are found.
You may need/want to download and install the latest graphics driver from the Nvidia/AMD website (they change so regularly the latest version isn't always in the Windows libraries).
 

GidRea

Bronze Level Poster
Thanks, I suspected that'd be necessary.

So - it wasn't helpful of PCS to put the test installation on the non-boot drive, after all. Sigh.

Cheers
 
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