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Windows 10 install experiences

What was your Windows 10 installation experience?


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ubuysa

Moderator
Moderator
What worries me about that, though, is leaving the pc unprotected during the upgrade. Is it possible to disable/uninstall the anti-virus and leave the firewall operating, or does that need to be disabled too?
If that's your worry, download the iso and burn it to a DVD. Then disconnect from the Internet, disable your antivirus and upgrade from the DVD.
 

Pagey

Bright Spark
Right, Ubuysaa, I think I've made some head-way with the sticking issue...

Firstly I went to the Intel website and downloaded the app that checks to see if your computer has the latest Intel drivers on, "Intel Driver Update Utility". Found out the Intel graphics drivers that were installed are actually out of date...

Still seemed to be sticking, so I decided to download the W8 Chipset drivers from the clevo site, (3 years old,) Installed it, now I can't get it to stick. So I'm assuming it's the Intel Chipset drivers that Windows update doesn't install, or just dumps in bad ones...

So to clarify:

Only drivers I had to install were:

Chipset Drivers and Hotkey drivers. That's the only two that need to manually installed.
 

ubuysa

Moderator
Moderator
Right, Ubuysaa, I think I've made some head-way with the sticking issue...

Firstly I went to the Intel website and downloaded the app that checks to see if your computer has the latest Intel drivers on, "Intel Driver Update Utility". Found out the Intel graphics drivers that were installed are actually out of date...

Still seemed to be sticking, so I decided to download the W8 Chipset drivers from the clevo site, (3 years old,) Installed it, now I can't get it to stick. So I'm assuming it's the Intel Chipset drivers that Windows update doesn't install, or just dumps in bad ones...

So to clarify:

Only drivers I had to install were:

Chipset Drivers and Hotkey drivers. That's the only two that need to manually installed.
And you used the Windows 8 Hotkey driver too? I'll have a crack at that when I get some time, many thanks!
 

ubuysa

Moderator
Moderator
Right, Ubuysaa, I think I've made some head-way with the sticking issue...

Firstly I went to the Intel website and downloaded the app that checks to see if your computer has the latest Intel drivers on, "Intel Driver Update Utility". Found out the Intel graphics drivers that were installed are actually out of date...

Still seemed to be sticking, so I decided to download the W8 Chipset drivers from the clevo site, (3 years old,) Installed it, now I can't get it to stick. So I'm assuming it's the Intel Chipset drivers that Windows update doesn't install, or just dumps in bad ones...

So to clarify:

Only drivers I had to install were:

Chipset Drivers and Hotkey drivers. That's the only two that need to manually installed.
Windows 8 drivers are confirmed to work.
Unfortunately it's not confirmed here, I still have the same issue.

I did a clean install of Windows 10 from DVD (not connected to the Internet) then installed the Windows 8 drivers, except for the two GPU drivers where I used the latest downloaded versions. The mouse freezing issue was still present, possibly less frequent but certainly still there.

Then I ran the Intel driver update tool and found the updated HD4000 driver so installed that. No change.

Then I ran Windows update. No drivers were found by Windows update and I installed all the Windows updates ok. The issue is still present though. I still get the occasional mouse freeze accompanied by a switching of the GPU lights. I think it's less frequent with the Windows 8 drivers but it is still there. Disabling the NVIDIA GPU removes the mouse freeze completely.

It may be the back-level BIOS version that I have that's making the difference - which is a puzzle because you got your Optimus IV before me I think. I don't believe it's a hardware issue because it runs Windows 8.1 flawlessly (and ran Windows 8 flawlessly too).

So I'm back to Windows 8.1 until I hear from either Clevo or PCS what the driver and/or BIOS position is regarding Windows 10 and the Optimus IV.
 

ubuysa

Moderator
Moderator
Well hopefully it sorts the problem out. *fingers crossed
Sadly it didn't.

I've flashed my BIOS with the latest version sent to me by PCS (it's dated 25/03/2013) and then done a clean install of Windows 10. I used all the Windows 8 drivers (my PCS account page says no new drivers are available for my build for Windows 10) except for the VGA and NVIDIA drivers where I used the latest downloaded drivers. My current DxDiag output is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/10w901uvjn17zms/DxDiag_ubuysa.txt?dl=0 if anyone is interested.

I still get the mouse freeze and GPU lights swap. Disabling either one of the two GPUs solves the problem so I'm now running with the Intel GPU disabled and everything is running on the NVIVIA GPU. That setup works perfectly and I can live with that.

I would ordinarily be suspecting a hardware issue now since it works on yours Pagey, but that doesn't explain why mine works perfectly on Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, it's only Windows 10 where I have this issue. That smells of software to me (and I still think it's Hotkey).

Anyway, I'm content for now and I'll stay with Windows 10 and just the NVIDIA GPU and see how that goes.

Why is nothing ever simple?
 

Bruce_zeb

Member
If that's your worry, download the iso and burn it to a DVD. Then disconnect from the Internet, disable your antivirus and upgrade from the DVD.
Thanks for the reply.

I tried installing it again with the anti-virus disabled and even the usb mouse replaced with a wired one, but I kept getting the previous error message.

Interestingly when I put the exact error message in Google (as an exact search) the only return was a French tech forum which linked back to Microsoft's support page about file repairs.

At that point things began to drift into technical areas beyond my comfort zone, and given that I'm pretty happy with Windows 8.1 I think I'll give up on Windows 10 for the moment.
 

ubuysa

Moderator
Moderator
The mouse freeze and GPU light swap is not just me. I came across this thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1523434/...es-gpu-for-a-split-of-a-second-during-alt-tab from last year that describes pretty much the same issue and a very recent post from another user with a similar issue to mine. There is another similar issue reported here http://www.tenforums.com/graphic-cards/18863-windows-10-nvidia-optimus-issue.html

I no longer think this is a hardware issue at all - though it might be some sort of timing issue? Clearly it's not just my laptop that has this problem either. It gives me more confidence that this is a software/driver/Hotkey issue that will eventually get fixed.

FWIW. I uninstalled both GPU drivers and let Windows update install them. Naturally it screwed up and tried to install the NVIDIA driver first, which failed. The Intel driver was installed ok. I uninstalled the NVIDIA driver and let update go again and it installed the driver properly the second time. The installed drivers are the same ones I installed manually. To do that I had to uninstall Hotkey as well (the NVIDIA driver will not install properly with Hotkey present). When I reinstalled Hotkey I ran it in compatibility mode for Windows 8 to see if that helped. It doesn't.

I also noticed that running with the NVIDIA card alone doesn't blank the screen properly so I'm back to running the Intel HD 4000 with the GTX 660M disabled. All is sweet like that. I'll wait for the fix.....
 
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Pagey

Bright Spark
For our laptops, I can safely assume the Hotkey drivers will never be updated, there aren't enough features to warrant any updates to it. I think the same can be said for the Intel Chipset drivers too, (though I can still be proved wrong).

Yes you are correct, it is a software thing, (booted up in safe mode and everything worked flawlessly, to a point, when it was playing up).

Though one thing I still don't understand is that if both of our laptops are identical, then how comes it works on mine but not on yours? The drivers won't be different, so essentially software-wise and hardware-wise, there are no differences.

You keep saying you installed your drivers, this leads me to believe you installed them manually. Considering W10 drivers haven't been issued for this laptop yet, then you would be installing W8 drivers. Surely this would cause issues? Don't mean to whine on about it, but I take my install procedures extremely seriously. Also to note: what exact drivers are you installing when you do?

This does leave me more than a little perplexed.
 

tfcoulson

Silver Level Poster
Installed, gave it a shot, got fed up with the AMD drivers not playing with me so Ive had to go back. Switchable graphics wasnt working.
 

ubuysa

Moderator
Moderator
For our laptops, I can safely assume the Hotkey drivers will never be updated, there aren't enough features to warrant any updates to it. I think the same can be said for the Intel Chipset drivers too, (though I can still be proved wrong).

Yes you are correct, it is a software thing, (booted up in safe mode and everything worked flawlessly, to a point, when it was playing up).

Though one thing I still don't understand is that if both of our laptops are identical, then how comes it works on mine but not on yours? The drivers won't be different, so essentially software-wise and hardware-wise, there are no differences.

You keep saying you installed your drivers, this leads me to believe you installed them manually. Considering W10 drivers haven't been issued for this laptop yet, then you would be installing W8 drivers. Surely this would cause issues? Don't mean to whine on about it, but I take my install procedures extremely seriously. Also to note: what exact drivers are you installing when you do?

This does leave me more than a little perplexed.
You may be right about hoteky and the chipset, unless any necessary updates are fairly trivial, I don't know how different the motherboards are from VI, V, IV, III etc. and it may be that the research to update these drivers for the Optimus VI, say, also applies to earlier Optimus versions, in which case Clevo would be stupid not to provide them.

I don't understand why it works on yours but not on mine either. It is a puzzlement. :)

According to the download page for my order on the PCS website "There are no drivers for your chosen operating system [Windows 10]". There is however a BIOS update (which I have applied) which brings me to the same BIOS level as you. This means one of three things:

1. The are no Windows 10 drivers and so Windows 10 will not install or work properly.

2. The Windows 8/8.1 drivers are good for most hardware in Windows 10.

3. Windows update will provide the necessary Windows 10 drivers.

Option 1. is clearly not true since you are running Windows 10, and so am I with one small niggle. I think that in all probability the correct Windows 10 drivers are a combination of 2. and 3. Some Windows 8/8.1 drivers work, others need new Windows 10 drivers which Windows update will/should supply. (The Realtek audio driver for Windows 8/8.1 is actually a Vista driver for example).

Based on the above assumptions the way I have installed Windows 10 is to do a clean install and then install all the Windows 8/8.1 drivers manually (the latest from the Clevo website or the original driver disk if they have not changed), except for those (VGA and NVIDIA) where I know there are updated Windows 10 drivers, and these I have installed manually. I installed the drivers in the sensible order too.

If any or all of these Windows 8/8.1 drivers are not suitable for Windows 10 then Windows update should select and install the appropriate drivers. When I run Windows update after installing the Windows 8/8.1 drivers no new drivers are found. This implies that all the Windows 8/8.1 drivers are good, or that no Windows 10 drivers exist at all in which case the Windows 10 install should tell me that my hardware is not supported (and it doesn't tell me that).

I am as fussy about software and driver installation as you are, I've had lots of experience during my long career, I won't even consider drivers (or BIOS updates) from sources that I don't trust (that means PCS or Clevo only for this laptop).

I believe you allowed Windows update to find all your drivers except for chipset and hotkey (and you manually installed the Windows 8/81. versions), is that right? If you'd care to describe the process by which you installed Windows 10 and whatever drivers you installed I'd love to hear it. At some stage in the near future I will do a reinstall following your method to see whether that produces better results.
 

Pagey

Bright Spark
You do make good points about Windows Update finding drivers, but I only install drivers if a component doesn't work.

My rule of thumb for fresh installs is:

1: Install OS.
2: Run WU a few times until no more update are available.
3: If a "feature" at this point does NOT work, THEN install the relevant drivers. (All features are and should be operational at this point, apart from the two in step 4.)
4: Install Chipset and Hotkey drivers.

Do not install drivers that aren't designed for W10, even though they are essentially compatible, it's best to let WU find them. Yeah I know I still install Chipset and Hotkey, but these drivers aren't OS level, but hardware level and are modified by the laptop manufacturer to ensure you get all features for the particular machine. I found this out by looking for the chipset drivers through Intel, and found they only supply it to computer manufacturers, in which turn they modify it to work exactly how they want it to.

Drivers for components that WU finds:

Audio
Touchpad
GPU and iGPU
Cardreader
WiFI (assumably) as WiFi is functional as soon as W10 has installed.

I can't actually think of any others, but you get the jist of things.

I really hope this is of some help. :)
 

ubuysa

Moderator
Moderator
You do make good points about Windows Update finding drivers, but I only install drivers if a component doesn't work.

My rule of thumb for fresh installs is:

1: Install OS.
2: Run WU a few times until no more update are available.
3: If a "feature" at this point does NOT work, THEN install the relevant drivers. (All features are and should be operational at this point, apart from the two in step 4.)
4: Install Chipset and Hotkey drivers.

Do not install drivers that aren't designed for W10, even though they are essentially compatible, it's best to let WU find them. Yeah I know I still install Chipset and Hotkey, but these drivers aren't OS level, but hardware level and are modified by the laptop manufacturer to ensure you get all features for the particular machine. I found this out by looking for the chipset drivers through Intel, and found they only supply it to computer manufacturers, in which turn they modify it to work exactly how they want it to.

Drivers for components that WU finds:

Audio
Touchpad
GPU and iGPU
Cardreader
WiFI (assumably) as WiFi is functional as soon as W10 has installed.

I can't actually think of any others, but you get the jist of things.

I really hope this is of some help. :)
Thanks Pagey, you make some excellent points there too. :)

I'll give your method a try in the near future. One problem I can forsee is that in the past when letting WU find drivers for Windows 10 it was reporting the install as failed but on a retry the drivers were not selected again. It was almost as though the driver had partially installed, enough for WU to report it failed but think the driver was installed so not select it again?

I could force the driver install from WU by uninstalling the "failed" drivers one at a time and running WU again. Did you have to do that?

It's still too hot here to be mucking about below decks, so I'm restricted to a couple of hours in the early morning whilst it's still cool - and before the dog wakes up for his walk! So I'll not try another reinstall until next week probably when it's supposed to be a tad cooler. I'll keep you informed.

Many thanks for your help, +rep deserved and given. :)
 

Pagey

Bright Spark
Aww, cheers dude.

Iirc some of my updates failed too, I ended up ignoring them.

If an update fails, it's usually a good idea to restart as that's why they fail. :D
 
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