Advice/Help for building a gaming desktop

[ammc]

Hi, I am looking to buy a gaming/work desktop pc, and even after spending a sizeable amount of time reading about different components, I still cannot make up my mind with regards to some of them, so I thought I would ask for advice.

A bit about the use case: I would mostly use this pc to play new AAA games, and would like the quality to be very good (I don’t need Ultra in everything) and with good fps. To a lesser degree, I would also use it for work, which is game development, programming, and image/video processing (working with RGB-Depth cameras, Hololens, etc). Maybe also a bit of VR gaming. I currently have a 27 inch 1440p monitor that runs at 70Hz. My budget is about 1800 eu, maybe 2k eu if it would make a big difference.

Some doubts I currently have. I’ve been reading about the i7-8700k vs Ryzen 2700x, and I think I am leaning towards Ryzen, but I could be convinced otherwise. Maybe the i7 is overkill, for what I need, I don’t know. With regards to the graphics card, I am thinking on probably getting a GTX 1080, but maybe a 1070 would do the trick? Or even a Radeon? My monitor has freesync, but I think NVidia has better cards. I would also prefer air cooling rather than AiO systems, and I saw that Noctua has the best ones, but again, maybe a cheaper option would suffice?

Considering this, I would appreciate it greatly if someone could help me with a good build based on my expected use, or just some advice with respect to the components.

Also, I just saw that you can find some builds in the review section of the website, and they seem considerably cheaper than when you build a similar one. Is this accurate? Or is it just me? I saw on the forums people suggesting the Vulcan X, which seemed nice, but I would like faster RAM. When I tried to build a pc just like the Vulcan X, the price was much higher, but maybe I was not doing something right.

Thanks a lot for any help you can provide.

 

[Oussebon]

i7-8700k vs Ryzen 2700x, and I think I am leaning towards Ryzen, but I could be convinced otherwise. Maybe the i7 is overkill, for what I need, I don’t know.

This sounds like the old "AMD = budget, Intel = top end" fallacy. A high end system with an R7 2700x is going to cost you the same as a high end one with an i7 8700k. An i7 8700k wins out for gaming performance. The R7 2700x wins out in some other areas, particularly multithreaded ones like maybe compiling code, rendering video projects (although in some video editing the 8700k wins out comfortably e.g. Premiere Pro thanks to it supporting use of the CPU's onboard graphics...)

Either will be very solid for your uses. For gaming I generally say the 8700k.

With regards to the graphics card, I am thinking on probably getting a GTX 1080, but maybe a 1070 would do the trick? Or even a Radeon? My monitor has freesync, but I think NVidia has better cards.

An AMD RX Vega 56 I believe will outperform a GTX 1070, and is closer to the 1070 ti in performance. The RX 64 is in line with the GTX 1080 overall. If you have a nice, 1440p monitor with freesync, I'd be tempted to suggest the RX Vega 56. However, AMD's GPUs are a lot more expensive than Nvidias at PCS's prices.

What is the exact model of your monitor? If the freesync range is quite limited there might not be much point to it anyway.

saw on the forums people suggesting the Vulcan X, which seemed nice, but I would like faster RAM.

This is my 1 real complaint about the Vulcan X spec.

When I tried to build a pc just like the Vulcan X, the price was much higher, but maybe I was not doing something right.

You were doing everything right The Vulcan X, and all the specs on the Reviews page, have a discounted price. Sometimes the discount is quite small, but with the high end PCs it can often be around £200.

There is also the Vulcan S 01 and the Magma Pro, which are the same kind of thing but with a GTX 1080. The Magma Pro is an r7 2700x build, the Vulcan S 01 an i7 8700k one.

 

[ammc]

Thanks a lot Oussebon for your quick reply.

This sounds like the old "AMD = budget, Intel = top end" fallacy.

Well, my doubt was not really about it being budget or not, but performance. I've read both are very good, with Intel being (slightly) better at gaming, but losing when it comes to multi thread performance. The gaming performance was based on the GPU, and resolution, so then it started to become quite convoluted. I also saw that i was only a couple of frames better, so probably not noticeable. This is why i wanted some advice, as my impression was that Ryzen would be overall better, given a good GPU.

An AMD RX Vega 56 I believe will outperform a GTX 1070, and is closer to the 1070 ti in performance. The RX 64 is in line with the GTX 1080 overall. If you have a nice, 1440p monitor with freesync, I'd be tempted to suggest the RX Vega 56. However, AMD's GPUs are a lot more expensive than Nvidias at PCS's prices.

For the use case that i mentioned, do you think GTX 1080 or 1070 performance would be appropriate? I guess if it fits in the budget, 1080 performance would not hurt.

What is the exact model of your monitor? If the freesync range is quite limited there might not be much point to it anyway.

Iiyama Prolite XUB2792QSU. I have never used freesync (or the NVidia equivalent), so i am clueless regarding this. Dont even know how useful it is (if at all).

The Magma Pro is an r7 2700x build, the Vulcan S 01 an i7 8700k one.

It is a shame you cannot customize them cause the price point was very good.

Based on this, could you recommend me a build that would fit the 1800-2k eu budget (i think this is around 1600 pounds)?

Thanks a lot.

 

[ammc]

Thanks Oussebon for your quick reply.

This sounds like the old "AMD = budget, Intel = top end" fallacy

Sorry if it came out like that, but actually i was talking strictly about performance. I read that the i7 has (slightly) better gaming performance, but this would depend on the GPU, resolution, etc. At some point it became quite convoluted for me, but i think for my case it would only be a couple of frames better. The Ryzen on the other hand would be better at multithreaded tasks, and given a good GPU, seems like the overall best option. This is my impression.

An AMD RX Vega 56 I believe will outperform a GTX 1070, and is closer to the 1070 ti in performance. The RX 64 is in line with the GTX 1080 overall.

So, for my expected use, do you think GTX 1070ti-like or 1080-like performance (not the brand, just performance) would be more appropriate?

What is the exact model of your monitor?

Iiyama Prolite XUB2792QSU. I have never used freesync (or the NVidia counterpart) so i am completely clueless as to how they work, the range you mention, or even if they are all that useful to begin with.

Magma Pro is an r7 2700x build, the Vulcan S 01 an i7 8700k one

It is a shame you cannot customize them, since their price points are very good, but i guess that is because they are not configurable.

In general, given this information, could you please recommend me a build within the 1800-2k eu budget? I guess this is around 1600 pounds.

And sorry if this is a double post, my previous reply was not posted for some reason.

Thanks a lot for the help.

 

[zimcomp]

I noticed you mention the slow ram but I wounder what the real world difference is between slow and fast ram ?

 

[polycrac]

I noticed you mention the slow ram but I wounder what the real world difference is between slow and fast ram ?

The answer from this set of tests:

https://www.gamersnexus.net/game-bench/2677-bf1-ram-benchmark-frequency-8gb-enough/page-2

Seems to be 'small, but real', at least in terms of average fps.

 

[Oussebon]

Depends on the game. Some, none. Others, lots. I've seen WoW gain 16% FPS going from 1600MHz to 2400MHz DDR3, with others I know seeing huge gains too. Or something like Fallout 4:

Where it can make the difference between horrendous chop and stutter, and being able to play the damn thing. Though ofc FO4 and WoW are both weird creatures.

That said, the discount on the Vulcan X is probably so large one could buy it, buy faster RAM, and still have a net saving (especially if one then ebayed the slower stuff...)

Iiyama Prolite XUB2792QSU. I have never used freesync (or the NVidia counterpart) so i am completely clueless as to how they work, the range you mention, or even if they are all that useful to begin with.

The freesync/gsync range is the range of the monitor's refresh rate where the adaptive refresh tech works. I believe that monitor's range is 48-70 or so, looking at what people say online. Which is okay but not great. Given that a Vega 56 costs more than a 1080 at PCS's prices, and that you'v never used freesync, I'd say you can probably think about skipping it and sticking to a GTX 1080 GPU.

It is a shame you cannot customize them, since their price points are very good, but i guess that is because they are not configurable.

In fairness, a lot of the high end Review specs have a ~£200 discount built into the price tag, so it's a fair exchange for not being able to customise them.

For your needs and budget, I'd recommend either:
Vulkan S 01: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/configure-review/267/
Magma Pro: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/configure-review/267/

Very similar specs, but one is i7 8700k, one is R7 2700x.

Given your uses, gaming at 1440p, and the extra features on the Magma (better case, USB 3.1 Gen 2 Type C, larger HDD) I'd probably recommend the Magma Pro.

 

[ammc]

Thanks for the recommendations Oussebon! One thing, the two builds that you suggested use water cooling, and i would much rather have air cooling. I cannot find any of the review builds with air cooling. Do you know of any?

If not, i could just more or less copy the build (although it will be more expensive), and add an air cooler solution. If i do go for this, would you say a Noctua is the one to go for? Or maybe a cheaper option would also work? What would you recommend?

Thanks.

 

[polycrac]

Noctua make great coolers BUT, the builds above have all-in-one liquid coolers: they are very safe, easy and very rarely leak. They sometimes get confused for their more complex and niche custom loop counterparts (if that was what put you off, don't be worried, these are a very different kettle of fish)

 

[ammc]

Hi polycrac, I've read that, while the risk is very low, they could leak at some point in time. I would prefer to avoid that risk at all costs. Plus, i've also read that the Noctua coolers are very good, sometimes even better than the entry-level All-in-Ones, with less noise to boot. Dont know if this would be the case with the particular components available here, but i am assuming so.

 

[sainahZ]

Oussebon is completely right, I'll just add about the air cooler (if you really want it but I prefer to use a liquid cooler for 8700k) you can also choose the "cryorig h7", I'm using it right now and also using an 8700(non-k) my temp in just browsing, movies, office work is just a minimum of 38°C, in gaming playing such as Battlefield IV, Pubg, Cod WW2, it goes up to 50°C - 60°C hope this helps.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Oussebon is completely right, I'll just add about the air cooler (if you really want it but I prefer to use a liquid cooler for 8700k) you can also choose the "cryorig h7", I'm using it right now and also using an 8700(non-k) my temp in just browsing, movies, office work is just a minimum of 38°C, in gaming playing such as Battlefield IV, Pubg, Cod WW2, it goes up to 50°C - 60°C hope this helps.

Except that PCS don’t supply it, these forums are run by PCS who build custom PC’s and laptops. We can only advise on builds by them.

 

[ubuysa]

Hi polycrac, I've read that, while the risk is very low, they could leak at some point in time. I would prefer to avoid that risk at all costs. Plus, i've also read that the Noctua coolers are very good, sometimes even better than the entry-level All-in-Ones, with less noise to boot. Dont know if this would be the case with the particular components available here, but i am assuming so.

If you're dead set against a liquid cooler (and my bet is that PCS fit them in the review machines for a good reason) then your earlier suggestion of replicating the build but with an air cooler (and I too would strongly recommend the Noctua - I have one) would get you what you want - but at an increased price of course.

In your position it's worth phoning PCS and asking how they could help you get a review machine with an air cooler and at what price. I don't work for PCS but they're reasonable people, give them a call and see what they can do to help.

 

[Oussebon]

The liquid coolers are fine, and the risk is tiny. I believe Corsair also take responsibility for any damage to other components, if their cooler caused it (?)

There are as many arguments to be made about having massive air coolers hanging off the side of a motherboard.

PCS used to sell an even larger Noctua cooler iirc, until it kept getting damaged or damaging the system due to its size in transit.

Again, the risk is very slim, but if we're acknowledging the risks of a modern AIO liquid cooler, we also need to acknowledge the risks of large lumps of metal hanging off the mobo.

You could always buy the review system and fit your own cooler should you wish

As an aside, the Noctua will not fit in the Vulkan S 01 review spec case I believe.

 

[SpyderTracks]

As far as I know, it’s not actually water in the closed loop coolers but a kind of plasma that doesn’t damage electrical components so even if it does leak (I’ve had one for 2 years working perfectly touch wood) it won’t damage the board or any components.

 

[ammc]

Thanks everyone for your input. I was not aware of the risk of the air coolers damaging your motherboard due to them being too heavy. I live in the Netherlands, so if i order the PC, it would travel quite a bit, which is why i was trying to avoid problems that may arise during the transportation, such as liquid leaking or a part of the AIO becoming loose. I guess the air cooler being too heavy could also become a problem in transportation.

I will look into whether Corsair takes responsibility for damaged equipment due to spillage. It would at least make me more at ease to know that they replace the components.

You could always buy the review system and fit your own cooler should you wish

While i am confident to do small things like fitting RAMs or an SSD into a computer, i would definitely not play around with cooling systems. I think they come with thermal paste, and therefore i think i would need to remove it completely, apply a new layer, etc. That is too advanced for my current skill set

 

[ubuysa]

There are as many arguments to be made about having massive air coolers hanging off the side of a motherboard.

PCS used to sell an even larger Noctua cooler iirc, until it kept getting damaged or damaging the system due to its size in transit.

Again, the risk is very slim, but if we're acknowledging the risks of a modern AIO liquid cooler, we also need to acknowledge the risks of large lumps of metal hanging off the mobo.

Thanks everyone for your input. I was not aware of the risk of the air coolers damaging your motherboard due to them being too heavy. I live in the Netherlands, so if i order the PC, it would travel quite a bit, which is why i was trying to avoid problems that may arise during the transportation, such as liquid leaking or a part of the AIO becoming loose. I guess the air cooler being too heavy could also become a problem in transportation.

I don't work for PCS and I'm certainly no expert on coolers but I think you might have extrapolated from what Oussebon actually said.

It is true that PCS did have issues with the larger Noctua air cooler being damaged in transit - but it was the cooler that was being bent a little and not the motherboard that was being damaged. I've not heard on here of any motherboard ever being damaged by an air cooler.

Personally I wouldn't select a cooler based on how likely it was to damage my PC, that's like selecting a car based on how likely it is to damage your drive. IMO a cooler should be selected based on the heat you need it to remove...

BTW. I live in Crete and my recent PCS PC arrived in perfect condition - and with a Noctua air cooler hanging off the CPU....

 

[ammc]

Thanks Ubuysa for the clarification! I indeed thought Oussebon meant the mobo could get damaged, not the the cooler itself.

Personally I wouldn't select a cooler based on how likely it was to damage my PC, that's like selecting a car based on how likely it is to damage your drive. IMO a cooler should be selected based on the heat you need it to remove

This is indeed true, but the problem for me is that i have never had a gaming desktop (only a gaming laptop from PCS, but it was much more straightforward to select components for that one). As such, i really have no idea on how much heat are the components going to generate, and what type of cooling i would need for them. The only thing i had heard about was the risk of an AIO leaking, so that made me favor an air cooling solution. I also read that they make less noise than AIOs, at least the Noctua ones, which was a big plus. In general, the overall opinion is that Noctua air coolers are extremely good, so i thought, well, lets just get that one.

I saw a build on another thread about a silent gaming desktop, which looks a lot like something i would like, but the budget was much higher, so i reduced some things and came up with this.

Case
FRACTAL DEFINE R6 BLACK TEMPERED GLASS QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Overclocked CPU
Overclocked Intel® Core™ i7-8700K Six Core (3.7GHz @ up to 4.8GHz)
Motherboard
ASUS® TUF Z370-PLUS GAMING: ATX, LGA1151, USB 3.1, SATA 6GBs - RGB Ready
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3000MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 1080 - DVI, HDMI, 3x DP - GeForce GTX VR Ready!
1st Hard Disk
500GB Samsung 860 2.5" EVO SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 550MB/sR | 520MB/sW)
The Crew 2 FREE with select SAMSUNG SSDs!
2nd Hard Disk
1TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 3.5" SSHD
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre European Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Noctua NH-U14S Ultra Quiet Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED
Operating System Language
US International/USA - US English Language
Windows Recovery Media
NO RECOVERY MEDIA REQUIRED
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
2 DAY DELIVERY TO NETHERLANDS
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 13 to 15 working days
Quantity
1

Price €1.986,00 including BTW and delivery

Does this build make sense? Also, I would like to reduce, if possible, the price to around 1800 eu (1900 eu tops), but dont know what else i can downgrade without losing performance significantly. Maybe the case? or the mobo? Could someone suggest me something? If it is not possible to do it without affecting performance too much, then thats that.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[Oussebon]

I indeed thought Oussebon meant the mobo could get damaged, not the the cooler itself.

Both in fact. If you are likely to move the PC after you receive it, I suggest you keep the packaging including the foam insert. Some people will remove things like the CPU cooler and the GPU altogether before moving home with a PC.

A Noctua is more than sufficient for handling the heat from an i7 8700k with a modest OC. An H100i is more effective, however.

The build above looks fine, and you are also at least going for a different case (Fractal Defines are good for a quieter system) too.

2nd Hard Disk
1TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 3.5" SSHD

I would stick to the regular HDD. The SSHDs are expensive and there's not much point if your OS, programs, and games are on the much faster SSD anyway.

Power Supply
CORSAIR 650W TXm SERIES™ SEMI-MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET

If going for a very quiet system, go for the RMx PSU as it is semi-passive, meaning it will often be 100% silent due to not needing to turn on its fan.

 

[ammc]

Thanks for all the help, everyone! I will consider all of this when building the system.