Defiance or Octane? HELP, very undecided

[IAMROBH]

Hello guys, I need a last suggestion from you before buying my new laptop. I am coming from an HP DV6 2125-el with:

- Windows 7 Home Edition x64.
- i3 M330 (2.15Ghz, 2 cores and 4 threads) which now is rated as poor even if says that is performing above expectations.
- Samsung (M471B5673EH1-CH9 M471B5273CH0-CH9) 6GB RAM rated as poor.
- Nvidia GeForce G105M with 512MB Ram rated terrible hahaha.
- Hitachi HD HTS725050A9A364 500GB rated average.

Gaming: 11%, Desktop: 26%, Workstation: 16%.

***All ratings come from UserBenchmark***

I never had problems with this notebook and still works fine! I need however a new one as this is around 8 years old and often is slow.

I want a notebook mainly for programming as Java Eclipse and which is powerful enough to not have delays and must run smoothly even when running multiple tasks at the same time e.g. running Eclipse, Chrome open, Microsoft Office docs opened and more in background. I want it to run at least GTA V at high or ultra and be able to work well with Fruity Loops (music production software) allowing me to have an acceptable low latency and good processing of many sounds in the same time. I also want to say that I won't be a very active gaming but more occasional only playing GTA V, some of the Hitman series and probably Dead Island. I also need a notebook which can last me at least another 5-8 years from now on. My budget would be around £1500. Screen size: 17.3

I am considering at the moment those 2 configurations:

CONFIGURATION 1:

Chassis & Display
Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD 144Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080) + G-Sync ******or maybe even the QHD, is it really a big change?***
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor 8750H (2.2GHz, 4.1GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB) ***1x16 in case I want in future to upgrade***
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1 ***I don't think that I will need over 6GB, as I won't be heavily gaming and won't need much of graphic performance in music production and applications***
1st Hard Disk
500GB SEAGATE SERIAL ATA III 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 32MB CACHE (7,200rpm) ***To store stuff: pictures, music, movies, programs and so on***
2nd M.2 SSD Drive
250GB SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3400MB/R, 1500MB/W) ***I guess for the OS and programs, should be enough***
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 200W AC Adaptor
Battery
Defiance Series 4 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (66WH)
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
2 Channel High Def. Audio + MIC/Headphone + Sound BlasterX® Pro-Gaming 720˚
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) +BT 5.0
USB Options
4 x USB 3.0 Ports + 1 x USB 3.1 Type C Ports
Keyboard Language
RGB BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Google Chrome™
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MEGAPIXEL WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour) ***I guess is a better option for only £5 to upgrade to this***
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 3 to 5 working days
Quantity
1

Price £1,404.00 including VAT and delivery

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

CONFIGURATION 2:

Chassis & Display
Octane Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD 144Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080) + G-Sync
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor i7-8700k (3.7GHz) 12MB Cache
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 OC 1480 MHz - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st Hard Disk
1TB SEAGATE 7mm SERIAL ATA III 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 128MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
250GB SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3400MB/R, 1500MB/W)
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 330W AC Adaptor
Battery
Octane Series 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (82WH)
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) +BT 5.0
USB Options
4 x USB 3.0 Ports + 2 x USB 3.1 Type C Ports
Keyboard Language
OCTANE SERIES BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD WITH NUMBER PAD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Google Chrome™
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MP FULL HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 3 to 5 working days
Quantity
1

Price £1,763.00 including VAT and delivery

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I like a lot the design of the Defiance over the Octane. It is nicer and a lot slimmer, power consumption is lower and the weight is lower too. I cannot however select the 8850H processor, but only the 8750H. Also various people said that the Octane is better in the cooling system as it's bigger whilst the Defiance is more affected by heat specially the keyboard (WASD zone). If the Defiance is very good in performance I would buy it also because its looking. If is better chose a more powerful cpu then I would go for the Octane.

I am very very undecided, is a hard choice for me.

Defiance: Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor 8750H (2.2GHz, 4.1GHz Turbo) 9 MB SmartCache SPEED RANK: 49/1117

Octane: Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor 8700k (3.7GHz, 5.15Ghz Turbo) 12MB Cache SPEED RANK: 6/1117

It seems a lot of difference.

Which configuration do you suggest and why? Will the Defiance be good enough for what I need or should I stick with the Octane to be safe and maybe be sure that I have a very good processor and that will not need change very soon and that will run almost anything?

Thank you very much for the help!

Robert

 

[Oussebon]

Gaming: 11%, Desktop: 26%, Workstation: 16%.

***All ratings come from UserBenchmark***

userbenchmark should be tied up in a sack and thrown over the side. The results are genuine garbage. There are much more reliable performance measuring tools.

Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB) ***1x16 in case I want in future to upgrade***

How likely are you to need to upgrade, really? For the uses you've described it would seem extremely unlikely that you'd need more than 16gb. Having the RAM as dual channel i.e. 2x8gb rather than 1x16gb can give significant performance boosts in certain workloads, however.

NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1 ***I don't think that I will need over 6GB, as I won't be heavily gaming and won't need much of graphic performance in music production and applications***

Be aware that the "GB" of a graphics card has almost nothing to do with its performance. For your uses I believe the 1060 is a decent choice. But be careful when talking about GBs and graphics cards.

******or maybe even the QHD, is it really a big change?***

1440p resolution is much more demanding for gaming than 1080p. So a 1060 wouldn't really be adequate, especially in the long run.

Defiance or Octane? HELP, very undecided

Defiance. The Octane is larger, heavier and more expensive.

As I said in your other topic here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?59775-New-pc

The i7 8750H in the Defiance is already a huge performance boost over your current system. The Octane is overkill and for you a waste of money.

e.g.


Chassis & Display
Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD 144Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080) + G-Sync
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Six Core Processor 8750H (2.2GHz, 4.1GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1[SUP]st[/SUP] Hard Disk
1TB SEAGATE 7mm SERIAL ATA III 2.5" HARD DRIVE WITH 128MB CACHE (7,200rpm)
1[SUP]st[/SUP] M.2 SSD Drive
500GB SAMSUNG 970 EVO M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3400MB/R, 2300MB/W)

The Crew 2 FREE with select SAMSUNG NVMe SSDs!
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 200W AC Adaptor
Battery
Defiance Series 4 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (66WH)
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
2 Channel High Def. Audio + MIC/Headphone + Sound BlasterX® Pro-Gaming 720˚
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) +BT 5.0
USB Options
4 x USB 3.0 Ports + 1 x USB 3.1 Type C Ports
Keyboard Language
RGB BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MEGAPIXEL WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 3 to 5 working days
Quantity
1

Price £1,491.00 including VAT and delivery

Unique URL to re-configure : https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/defiancev-17/yTmSVkacJx/

 

[IAMROBH]

Thank you for your help. About the RAM I followed the logic that with the time you need upgrades. Maybe in the future I will want to do some things which the RAM you say won't be able to process. There are many changes since the last 7 years and I'm sure there will be in the next 7, I was trying to have a long view about my system. However as you say maybe 16GB(2x8) of RAM will be enough.

I have one question which is not clear.
Let's suppose I am running a program which requires a processor to work at 2.2Ghz then 2.8Ghz then 2.1Ghz then again 3.3Ghz. With the configuration you suggested me, does the fans start to function once the processor goes into the turbo mode or when the processor hits a certain temperature and therefore needs to be cooled down?

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I will be using a cooling stand most of the time and the processor shouldn't get too hot very fast.

As the best of your knowledge, can you return a laptop which simply you don't like how performs within 15 days from the purchase?

Thank you

 

[ubuysa]

Thank you for your help. About the RAM I followed the logic that with the time you need upgrades. Maybe in the future I will want to do some things which the RAM you say won't be able to process. There are many changes since the last 7 years and I'm sure there will be in the next 7, I was trying to have a long view about my system. However as you say maybe 16GB(2x8) of RAM will be enough.

I have one question which is not clear.
Let's suppose I am running a program which requires a processor to work at 2.2Ghz then 2.8Ghz then 2.1Ghz then again 3.3Ghz. With the configuration you suggested me, does the fans start to function once the processor goes into the turbo mode or when the processor hits a certain temperature and therefore needs to be cooled down?

Another thing I forgot to mention is that I will be using a cooling stand most of the time and the processor shouldn't get too hot very fast.

As the best of your knowledge, can you return a laptop which simply you don't like how performs within 15 days from the purchase?

Thank you

Buying additional capacity or performance now in the hope that it will be useful in 7 years time is a big mistake IMO. Technology is changing so fast that anything you buy today will be out of date in just 12 month's time. IMO the wisest option is to buy the capacity and performance you need today and for the next year, and possibly at a pinch your best estimate for the year after that, but no more than that. Trying to 'futureproof' for 7 years ahead is going to be a waste of your money I believe.

That said, 16GB of RAM now is not unreasonable, I did the same thing.

I believe the fans are temperature triggered. In Windows power options you can set either an active or passive cooling option. In the active option the fan speed is increased when the laptop gets hot before the CPU speed is throttled. This obviously gives the best performance at the expense of fan noise. In the passive option the CPU speed is throttled when the laptop gets hot before the fan speed is increased. This gives the quietest mode at the expense of CPU performance. Not that I've said 'when the laptop get hot' because I don't know which temperature sensor(s) the fans respond to.

A fan assisted cooling stand is a great idea and very strongly recommended. Those with an aluminium grid on which the laptop sites are better than ones with a plastic grid. This is because the plastic retains more heat than the aluminium so the air going in to the laptop is hotter with a plastic grid. In my experience those with one or two large fans last longer and are more effective than those with many small fans (which seem to fail quite early).

The PCS Terms & Conditions say...

If you are contracting as a consumer, you may cancel a Contract at any time within 14 calendar days, beginning on the day you received the Products. You must notify us via durable medium (email / letter) and quote your order number in any communication. Notification by phone is not sufficient.

...so yes, you can cancel an order within 14 days for any reason, even if you just don't like it.

 

[IAMROBH]

Thank you very much all, I will be going for the Defiance!