Ionico 17, Intel vs. AMD

[YakuzaDog]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of getting the Ionico 17.3" laptop with RTX3070, and I was thinking I'd get it with the Ryzen 9 5900HX processor, because I've read that it's not only faster than the Core i7 11800H for most tasks, but the Intel chip tends to run hot (which is a concern anyway in such a thin laptop). But it's a big price difference, so I wanted to get some opinions as to whether it's worth it. I've looked at the usual places on the forum to try and get information, but all the Ionico benchmarks are with the i7, so I can't really get a like-for-like comparison. I'll be doing high-end gaming, streaming to Twitch, running a second monitor, light video editing, and I hope that it'll last as well as my current PCS laptop (6 years and still going pretty strong).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edit: I'm also thinking of getting VR for it at some point, and yes I'm still considering the Valeon instead as it seems like it'd have better air flow, but portability is also a plus point for me at the moment, so I dunno. *shrugs* Also, the price gap seems to have closed a bit in the half hour since I posted this. 😅

 

[barlew]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of getting the Ionico 17.3" laptop with RTX3070, and I was thinking I'd get it with the Ryzen 9 5900HX processor, because I've read that it's not only faster than the Core i7 11800H for most tasks, but the Intel chip tends to run hot (which is a concern anyway in such a thin laptop). But it's a big price difference, so I wanted to get some opinions as to whether it's worth it. I've looked at the usual places on the forum to try and get information, but all the Ionico benchmarks are with the i7, so I can't really get a like-for-like comparison. I'll be doing high-end gaming, streaming to Twitch, running a second monitor and I hope that it'll last as well as my current PCS laptop (6 years and still going pretty strong).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

So I have just bought a new Ionico with the 11800H and the 3080.

I am coming from the 5900HX. The reason I am switching back to Intel is because frankly I was really disappointed with the Ryzen. Bare in mind this is a really unpopular opinion around here.

1. That chip ran far hotter than any Intel chip I have ever owned. I went from the 10875H to the 5900HX and the I7 ran probably around 10C cooler in most games (that is subjective based on hours of playing games. It is not something I actually tested). The AMD CPU would be sitting in the early to mid 90's in most AAA games. This wasn't a bad paste job either the chip just runs really hot.

2. This leads into the second issue. You cannot under-volt the 5900HX so as long as your paste job is good on the CPU if its still running hotter than you would like your options are extremely limited when it comes to trying to cool it down further.

3. This is something I have harped on about before on these forums but AMD's drivers and software are absolutely terrible and it is a problem which is well documented online. When running in Optimus using the AMD APU the Radeon software and drivers would frequently throw a fit which would result in having to mess around with reinstalling everything and messing around with drivers in device manager.

In the end for me it was such a pain in the arse having a laptop with the R9 in it that I wont be getting another one again any time soon. I have never had such a cluster with an Intel laptop.

*EDIT* - If you look at performance between the two chips there is minimal difference in both productivity workloads and gaming as well.

*2nd EDIT* - For clarity.

 

[YakuzaDog]

So I have just bought a new Ionico with the 11800H and the 3080.

I am coming from the 5900HX. The reason I am switching back to Intel is because frankly I was really disappointed with the Ryzen. Bare in mind this is a really unpopular opinion around here.

1. That chip ran far hotter than any Intel chip I have ever owned. I went from the 10875H to the 5900HX and the I7 ran probably around 10C cooler in most games (that is subjective based on hours of playing games. It is not something I actually tested). The AMD CPU would be sitting in the early to mid 90's in most AAA games. This wasn't a bad paste job either the chip just runs really hot.

2. This leads into the second issue. You cannot under-volt the 5900HX so as long as your paste job is good on the CPU if its still running hotter than you would like your options are extremely limited when it comes to trying to cool it down further.

3. This is something I have harped on about before on these forums but AMD's drivers and software are absolutely terrible and it is a problem which is well documented online. When running in Optimus using the AMD APU the Radeon software and drivers would frequently throw a fit which would result in having to mess around with reinstalling everything and messing around with drivers in device manager.

In the end for me it was such a pain in the arse having a laptop with the R9 in it that I wont be getting another one again any time soon. I have never had such a cluster with an Intel laptop.

*EDIT* - If you look at performance between the two chips there is minimal difference in both productivity workloads and gaming as well.

*2nd EDIT* - For clarity.

Thanks for the speedy response. You're right that a lot of people seem to be going the other way with this, which definitely muddies the waters, but everyone can only speak from their own experience. How long have you had the new one you just bought? If you're expecting to post on here about it at some point, I'll look out for your review. I'm not in any hurry, since as I said, my current one is still working well for now, just isn't going to do Control at max settings.

 

[barlew]

Thanks for the speedy response. You're right that a lot of people seem to be going the other way with this, which definitely muddies the waters, but everyone can only speak from their own experience. How long have you had the new one you just bought? If you're expecting to post on here about it at some point, I'll look out for your review. I'm not in any hurry, since as I said, my current one is still working well for now, just isn't going to do Control at max settings.

Of course, and don't get me wrong the R9 in terms of performance was absolutely fantastic but when you compare it to the 11800H there is not much difference.

Obviously I am only one use case, talking about the problems I had, with one laptop chassis. The R9 in the Ionico may behave completely differently but I haven't had any experience of it so I cant comment. I just don't want to risk having the same problems with it that I had with my old laptop.

I only ordered it yesterday so I'm not expecting to receive it for a couple of weeks at least. Once I have it I will put my thoughts up on the forum.

On a side note I had the Vyper 17 not so long ago which was the chassis before the Ionico. In terms of design and materials it was exactly the same. It was a lovely laptop but it had a chronic problem with the battery which Tong Fang could not fix which is why I returned it. Apart from the battery (and a slightly sub par keyboard) it was an astonishingly high performing machine considering how thin it is. It also ran far cooler than you would expect due to some very clever design ideas based around the cooling.

The Ionico has been out for about a year now and all the reviews seem to be very good. There are no common problems cropping up on the forum so I have very high hopes for this laptop.

 

[SpyderTracks]

This is something I have harped on about before on these forums but AMD's drivers and software are absolutely terrible and it is a problem which is well documented online. When running in Optimus using the AMD APU the Radeon software and drivers would frequently throw a fit which would result in having to mess around with reinstalling everything and messing around with drivers in device manager.

Just to add, it's general practice with Ryzen to just install the driver and not the Radeon Software, same as on intel you would never install the Intel Updater, just the driver itself. Any automatic updater is generally advised against, the only one that's actually worth any time is NVidia Geforce Experience.

 

[barlew]

Just to add, it's general practice with Ryzen to just install the driver and not the Radeon Software, same as on intel you would never install the Intel Updater, just the driver itself. Any automatic updater is generally advised against, the only one that's actually worth any time is NVidia Geforce Experience.

The problem with this is the Radeon software provides the same sorts of functions you get with the Nvidia control panel such as Freesync. Without it those functions do not work.

*EDIT for clarity* - Obviously if you are not using Optimus and have are in dGPU mode all the time this is not a problem. Of course the Ionico has a MUX so you could just leave it in dGPU mode all the time.

 

[Vergaro98]

The problem with this is the Radeon software provides the same sorts of functions you get with the Nvidia control panel such as Freesync. Without it those functions do not work.

*EDIT for clarity* - Obviously if you are not using Optimus and have are in dGPU mode all the time this is not a problem. Which of course the Ionico has.

But you can control them through the Nvidia panel. I doubt that you only use the iGPU 😂

Ps. I've the r9 and I never had driver problems.

 

[barlew]

But you can control them through the Nvidia panel. I doubt that you only use the iGPU 😂

Yeh like I said in my last post. and if you are using Optimus and do not have Radeon installed then Freesync will not work. G-Sync can only be controlled through Nvidia if you are in dGPU mode.

 

[Vergaro98]

Yeh like I said in my last post. and if you are using Optimus and do not have Radeon installed then Freesync will not work. G-Sync can only be controlled through Nvidia if you are in dGPU mode.

Sorry I did not read the edit 👍🏻

 

[barlew]

Sorry I did not read the edit 👍🏻

You probably wrote the post before I hit save.

 

[SpyderTracks]

The problem with this is the Radeon software provides the same sorts of functions you get with the Nvidia control panel such as Freesync. Without it those functions do not work.

*EDIT for clarity* - Obviously if you are not using Optimus and have are in dGPU mode all the time this is not a problem. Of course the Ionico has a MUX so you could just leave it in dGPU mode all the time.

Sorry, didn't mean the Radeon Software, I meant the auto updater which is called Adrenylin and is packaged in the default download on their site.

It's Adrenylin that you don't want to install.

There's also a regedit to fix it downloading the incorrect drivers.

I agree that it shouldn't happen in the first place, but as with a lot of things, there are usually workarounds.

The thing that worries me is that you're basing your findings off what must have been a faulty chassis, as there are loads of people out there who have used Ryzen with exactly the opposite experience that you've had.

My point is, your experience wasn't due to the AMD processor, it was either down to a poor chassis design, or a flaw with your particular chassis. It shouldn't have operated that way, it was faulty.

 

[barlew]

Sorry, didn't mean the Radeon Software, I meant the auto updater which is called Adrenylin and is packaged in the default download on their site.

It's Adrenylin that you don't want to install.

There's also a regedit to fix it downloading the incorrect drivers.

I agree that it shouldn't happen in the first place, but as with a lot of things, there are usually workarounds.

The thing that worries me is that you're basing your findings off what must have been a faulty chassis, as there are loads of people out there who have used Ryzen with exactly the opposite experience that you've had.

My point is, your experience wasn't due to the AMD processor, it was either down to a poor chassis design, or a flaw with your particular chassis. It shouldn't have operated that way, it was faulty.

I see what you are saying and I agree with you to an extent. The chassis I had was undoubtedly badly designed which is why I returned it. Also as I stated earlier on in the thread I am one person basing my decision off of owning one chassis with that particular processor.

But the reasons I personally would not buy another 5900HX are not localised to that one chassis. It is a well documented fact that the new Ryzen processors especially the top end ones such as the 5900HX run very hot. That's not a problem because they were designed to run that hot. I personally am not comfortable with how hot they run though, especially as I am not able to under-volt them. The problem with the Radeon software is also a well know problem across AMD's APU's and GPU's. Whilst there are work-arounds for it I still find it a massive inconvenience.

That all being said this is just my opinion after owning one chassis. If there was an issue with the Ionico with the 5900HX, then this forum would be flooded with people complaining. There aren't so I am sure it is a perfectly fine bit of kit.

 

[Vergaro98]

Just to know, my temps are 40-45° in idle, 75-80° in most of games (warzone, RDR2, control, etc. at max settings), and 85-90° only in the stress test like cinebench r23 or similar.
I don't think that's bad temps

 

[SpyderTracks]

I see what you are saying and I agree with you to an extent. The chassis I had was undoubtedly badly designed which is why I returned it. Also as I stated earlier on in the thread I am one person basing my decision off of owning one chassis with that particular processor.

But the reasons I personally would not buy another 5900HX are not localised to that one chassis. It is a well documented fact that the new Ryzen processors especially the top end ones such as the 5900HX run very hot. That's not a problem because they were designed to run that hot. I personally am not comfortable with how hot they run though, especially as I am not able to under-volt them. The problem with the Radeon software is also a well know problem across AMD's APU's and GPU's. Whilst there are work-arounds for it I still find it a massive inconvenience.

That all being said this is just my opinion after owning one chassis. If there was an issue with the Ionico with the 5900HX, then this forum would be flooded with people complaining. There aren't so I am sure it is a perfectly fine bit of kit.

If it's properly configured and a decent chassis, temps are no different to intel and actually often better.

Unfortunately (and I do have some conspirational theories of my own as to why but with absolutely no evidence to back it up) there have been some dreadful AMD chassis designs previous to the current models.

The most recent models seem to fair far better with relation to thermals generally.

And I realise that AMD themselves said that up to 95c was considered "normal" but then conversely Intel stated that thermal throttling at 100c was entirely expected and considered normal also and there are plenty of Intel chassis that thermal throttle out of the gate including the 2018 MacBook Pro and unfortunately, people still bought them by the millions.

AMD views Ryzen 5000 CPU temperatures up to 95C as ‘typical and by design’

Higher temps mean Zen 3 can boost higher and longer.

www.pcgamer.com

It’s Time to Call Out Laptop Manufacturers for Their Bullshit CPU Throttling | ExtremeTech

The trend of shipping laptops that can't maintain their top-end performance needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. ...

www.extremetech.com

Dell claim 100'C on CPU is safe and normal. Is it true? | DELL Technologies

So according to Intel Product Information Website of the I7 7820HK (which is one of the CPUs the Dell use for there Alienware laptops) https://ark.intel.com/products/97464/Intel-Core-i7-7820HK...

www.dell.com

I'm not disagreeing with you by the way, I don't doubt your experience was absolutely dreadful, and completely agree with you on the general issue with AMD drivers and software. It's generally understood that AMD software WILL require much more troubleshooting and workarounds to get stable.

But the stuttering you faced and temps were not inherent of the CPU itself I don't believe, and no chassis would perform that way when working optimally (unless it was a compromised chassis like the Asus Tuf and others).

When working properly in a decent chassis, you should max out at mid 80's temps for gaming and have extremely smooth (and capable) performance.

 

[Vergaro98]

I want to specify that I have a Recoil 15.6" and not an Ionico 17.3" so the temps between these 2 model could be different (despite the same CPU).

 

[SpyderTracks]

I want to specify that I have a Recoil 15.6" and not an Ionico 17.3" so the temps between these 2 model could be different (despite the same CPU).

I would have thought the Ionico would be marginally better given the larger chassis design but it is largely dependent on the individual chassis.

 

[Vergaro98]

I would have thought the Ionico would be marginally better given the larger chassis design but it is largely dependent on the individual chassis.

I don't know, the recoil is smaller but thicker so I really don't know 😅

 

[barlew]

If it's properly configured and a decent chassis, temps are no different to intel and actually often better.

Unfortunately (and I do have some conspirational theories of my own as to why but with absolutely no evidence to back it up) there have been some dreadful AMD chassis designs previous to the current models.

The most recent models seem to fair far better with relation to thermals generally.

And I realise that AMD themselves said that up to 95c was considered "normal" but then conversely Intel stated that thermal throttling at 100c was entirely expected and considered normal also and there are plenty of Intel chassis that thermal throttle out of the gate including the 2018 MacBook Pro and unfortunately, people still bought them by the millions.

AMD views Ryzen 5000 CPU temperatures up to 95C as ‘typical and by design’

Higher temps mean Zen 3 can boost higher and longer.

www.pcgamer.com

It’s Time to Call Out Laptop Manufacturers for Their Bullshit CPU Throttling | ExtremeTech

The trend of shipping laptops that can't maintain their top-end performance needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. ...

www.extremetech.com

Dell claim 100'C on CPU is safe and normal. Is it true? | DELL Technologies

So according to Intel Product Information Website of the I7 7820HK (which is one of the CPUs the Dell use for there Alienware laptops) https://ark.intel.com/products/97464/Intel-Core-i7-7820HK...

www.dell.com

I'm not disagreeing with you by the way, I don't doubt your experience was absolutely dreadful, and completely agree with you on the general issue with AMD drivers and software. It's generally understood that AMD software WILL require much more troubleshooting and workarounds to get stable.

But the stuttering you faced and temps were not inherent of the CPU itself I don't believe, and no chassis would perform that way when working optimally (unless it was a compromised chassis like the Asus Tuf and others).

When working properly in a decent chassis, you should max out at mid 80's temps for gaming and have extremely smooth (and capable) performance.

As always mate thanks for the detailed reply. Once I've got the little one down to bed ill have a read of the articles.

 

[barlew]

So t

Just to know, my temps are 40-45° in idle, 75-80° in most of games (warzone, RDR2, control, etc. at max settings), and 85-90° only in the stress test like cinebench r23 or similar.
I don't think that's bad temps

So these are far far lower than I had in my last laptop. I was idling around 55-60 and it would hit the 90C when loading games. That is with liquid metal. Clearly a bad chassis. That being said the temps shown in Jarrods 5800H vs 5900HX are pretty similarly high under load and thats using the 15inch Tong Fang chassis that the ionico is based off.

After @SpyderTracks robust defence of the R9 I did look at amending my order but unfortunately it isn't available with the 3080. So I'll be sticking with the 11800H.

@YakuzaDog if you do go ahead with the R9 keep us updated. I'd be interested to see how the two compare.

 

[SpyderTracks]

So t

So these are far far lower than I had in my last laptop. I was idling around 55-60 and it would hit the 90C when loading games. That is with liquid metal. Clearly a bad chassis. That being said the temps shown in Jarrods 5800H vs 5900HX are pretty similarly high under load and thats using the 15inch Tong Fang chassis that the ionico is based off.

After @SpyderTracks robust defence of the R9 I did look at amending my order but unfortunately it isn't available with the 3080. So I'll be sticking with the 11800H.

@YakuzaDog if you do go ahead with the R9 keep us updated. I'd be interested to see how the two compare.

There's a reason the 5800h and 5900hx were voted the best mobile cpu's on the market by multiple reviewers.

Remember sheer gaming performance, Intel wins, Multithreaded though and the Ryzens push ahead, but where it is more important in the mobile space is with power with the Ryzens needing substantially less power leading to lower thermals and significantly improved battery life.

Also remember that by default without a properly configured OS and therefor with Control Center not working optimally, the TongFangs will run at maximum boost set all the time leading to substantially higher temps. Of course you want this for hardcore use, but it's not going to make much of an impact for gaming, and I think having it on normal gaming mode would be more appropriate.

I've always been a little reticent about that Jarrods video because it didn't align with what most other reviewers found. A part of me wonders as it was a very early review sample, if there was something amiss with control center on his review system.

Just skip to the summary at the end of this, it's a really good one: