Need space to fit a 3090 after!

[AdamHattrell245]

Hey,

The combination of my old PSU failing, and Microsoft forcing Win11 upgrades (my old mobo isn't up to it), means I'm considering a new PC.

I use this machine for rendering computer art using Octane which adds a couple of wrinkles to the build.

Firstly Octane is GPU focused meaning that I need enough CPU to control the gpu cores, but not that much more. Clock speed is more important than cores. I could probably get away with an i5, but eventually settled on the i7.

Secondly, VRAM is king. My old rig has a 3090 that I'm inclined to move over to the new rig. The alternative would be to upgrade to the 4090 and ... sell it?

Third, if you run out of VRAM it fails to memory - so I've included a bunch. It also helps a bit with pipelining the VRAM so it's not totally wasted for smaller scenes. I probably don't actually need more than 72 (VRAM x 3) but I'm not saving that much overall to fill it out...

Finally, Octane will max out the gpu when it's doing it's thing, which means you need a second card to drive the screen whilst the main card is crunching the numbers. I arbitrarily picked the 4070 super as it'd mean I could use the rig for some mild gaming also - but could probably downgrade that without any problems.

Oh, and Octane only really supports AMD on Mac, - which is why I've gone Nvidia & Intel.

My main question is - would the mobo and box combo have enough space to add the 3090 in once I'm done? Also should I bump the power up to 1200W?

Cheers,

Adam


Case
FRACTAL DESIGN TORRENT RGB MID TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 20-Core Processor i7-14700K (Up to 5.6GHz) 33MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® ROG MAXIMUS Z790 DARK HERO (LGA1700, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 7)
Memory (RAM)
128GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR5 4800MHz (4 x 32GB)
Graphics Card
12GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 4070 SUPER - HDMI, DP, LHR
Graphics Card Support Bracket
NONE (BRACKET INCLUDED AS STANDARD ON 4070 Ti / RX 7700 XT AND ABOVE)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 990 EVO M.2, PCIe 4.0 & 5.0 NVMe (up to 5000MB/R, 4200MB/W)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ - MODULAR 80 PLUS GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead, 1.0mm Core)
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR iCUE H100i ELITE LCD XT RGB CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
ONBOARD LAN PORT
Wireless Network Card
NONE OR ONBOARD Wi-Fi (MOTHERBOARD DEPENDENT)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
Norton 360 inc. Game Optimizer - Free 90 Day License
Browser
Google Chrome™
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (6 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 4 to 6 working days
Price: £2,769.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/intel-z790-ddr5-pc/7w8XQ7heFR/

 

[Scott]

Would you not be more likely to game from the 3090? Or are you thinking to run Octane & game a the same time?

If you're thinking of running dual GPUs with Octane I would probably look to the 4070Ti Super or the 4060 Ti as both give 16GB of vRAM, unlike the 4070 Super with only 12GB.

I would definitely look towards AMD though. The 7800X3D is the gaming chip, but it has great all round potential as well. If you're not that focused on the gaming aspect then I would probably opt for the 7900 CPU in its place. Main reason for the cooling is for airflow rather than to keep the chip cool as you'll have no issues.

Note that to run these meaty GPUs you'll want far more PSU headroom than you've allowed. I kept Win 11 Pro as per your selection, unsure if you actually require it though?

Case
FRACTAL DESIGN TORRENT RGB MID TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D Eight Core CPU (4.2GHz-5.0GHz/104MB w/3D V-CACHE/AM5)
Motherboard
ASUS® ROG STRIX X670E-A GAMING WIFI (AM5, DDR5, PCIe 5.0, Wi-Fi 6E)
Memory (RAM)
96GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB DDR5 5200MHz (2 x 48GB) KIT
Graphics Card
12GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 4070 SUPER - HDMI, DP, LHR
Graphics Card Support Bracket
NONE (BRACKET INCLUDED AS STANDARD ON 4070 Ti / RX 7700 XT AND ABOVE)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
512GB SOLIDIGM P44 PRO GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 7000MB/sR, 4700MB/sW)
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SOLIDIGM P41+ GEN 4 M.2 NVMe PCIe SSD (up to 4125MB/sR, 2950MB/sW)
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1500W HXi SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® PLATINUM, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1.5 Metre IEC C19 UK Power Cable
Processor Cooling
CORSAIR iCUE H150i ELITE CAPELLIX XT RGB High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste
STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Card
ONBOARD 2.5Gbe LAN PORT
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 11 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10/11 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Microsoft® Edge
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 4 to 6 working days
Price: £2,543.00 including VAT and Delivery
Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/amd-am5-pc/rAxAntdBMm/

 

[TonyCarter]

If I'm reading the system requirements correctly, then performance scales with CUDA cores and VRAM, and very little with CPU speeds (and definitely not with more cores).

But the AMD 7700/7700X has the highest clock speed (7700 non-X is cheaper/more efficient and only loses out 0.1Ghz) and will use about 1/2 of the power of the i7 CPU - and produce less heat during long renders, so that may be a good alternative...as it will be able to maintain those boost clocks for longer.

They're even the go to option for some of the workstation builders - but they also recommend some very expensive Quadro GPUs too!

Hardware Recommendations for OctaneRender

Our Workstations for OctaneRender are tested and optimized to give you the best performance and reliability. View our hardware recommendations.

www.pugetsystems.com

It also means a future upgrade would simply require a CPU swap, rather than a whole platform change if you wanted the next big thing from Intel.

As for driving the monitor whilst the GPU is being used, can you not make use of the iGPU for yourbasic display capabilities (in either the AMD or Intel options)?

BTW, I don't know if you've got a recent OctaneBench result to hand, but I've just run it using OB 2020.1.5 and returned a total score of 1348.16 (RTX4090 + 7800X3D)...which compares well with PugetSystems scores for the same GPU (and about 2x the 3090 score)...

 

[AdamHattrell245]

Would you not be more likely to game from the 3090? Or are you thinking to run Octane & game a the same time?

I haven't in the old rig, because I'm too lazy to switch cables over. I have mulled installing a KVM, so I can lazily hit a button to switch modes, but I'm not super sure how happy a PC would be about using the out from both cards at once, so haven't tried it.

If you're thinking of running dual GPUs with Octane I would probably look to the 4070Ti Super or the 4060 Ti as both give 16GB of vRAM, unlike the 4070 Super with only 12GB.

Whilst you can use Octane with multiple GPU's - it only uses the smallest vram from the set. Which is annoying. So typically, I tell it to only use the 3090 unless the scene is tiny. Running out of vram is sadly massively slower. Which means you get this odd effect of getting better performance with a slower card that has more memory. The way round that used to be NVLink - so naturally Nvidia stopped supporting it.

I would definitely look towards AMD though. The 7800X3D is the gaming chip, but it has great all round potential as well. If you're not that focused on the gaming aspect then I would probably opt for the 7900 CPU in its place. Main reason for the cooling is for airflow rather than to keep the chip cool as you'll have no issues.

Good advice thanks. I'll do some research and work out what makes most sense.

Note that to run these meaty GPUs you'll want far more PSU headroom than you've allowed. I kept Win 11 Pro as per your selection, unsure if you actually require it though?

The config tool said the build as was needed 660W - so I added 350 to that for the 3090. How much higher do you think I should go?
(Professional was just in case I wanted to bump the memory later).

 

[AdamHattrell245]

If I'm reading the system requirements correctly, then performance scales with CUDA cores and VRAM, and very little with CPU speeds (and definitely not with more cores).

Yeah, correct. There's some mild bottleneck with pipelining the data if you go too slow on the cpu - but it's pretty much all gpu driven.
To the extent that my old build had an i7 6700k and didn't really slow me down.

But the AMD 7700/7700X has the highest clock speed (7700 non-X is cheaper/more efficient and only loses out 0.1Ghz) and will use about 1/2 of the power of the i7 CPU - and produce less heat during long renders, so that may be a good alternative...as it will be able to maintain those boost clocks for longer.

They're even the go to option for some of the workstation builders - but they also recommend some very expensive Quadro GPUs too!

Hardware Recommendations for OctaneRender

Our Workstations for OctaneRender are tested and optimized to give you the best performance and reliability. View our hardware recommendations.

www.pugetsystems.com

Good advice thanks.

As for driving the monitor whilst the GPU is being used, can you not make use of the iGPU for yourbasic display capabilities (in either the AMD or Intel options)?

Huh. I guess you could now. Didn't used to be practical when I started, but stuff has definitely moved on. That could save me a bunch of power and heat. 🤔

BTW, I don't know if you've got a recent OctaneBench result to hand, but I've just run it using OB 2020.1.5 and returned a total score of 1348.16 (RTX4090 + 7800X3D)...which compares well with PugetSystems scores for the same GPU (and about 2x the 3090 score)...

That is pretty good. My old rig is in the shop, so I don't have a comparison to hand, but that does sound about right... I may not _need_ the 4090, but I definitely do want one! I hate being grown up!

 

[TonyCarter]

The config tool said the build as was needed 660W - so I added 350 to that for the 3090. How much higher do you think I should go?

If you want the option of putting multiple GPUs in, or putting a more powerful single card in in the future, then I think Scott's suggestion of the HX1500 is spot on...and it what's in my config for the peace of mine overhead it provides...and even with everything running maxed out it will still be in it's most efficient range of 40-70% capacity (so quietest, coolest, least wasted energy mode).

It also has the benefit of being the latest generation ATX3 format with PCIe 5.0 12VHPWR connectors, so can handle higher power over fewer cables than the ATX2 versions...for example, my 4090 only needs 2 cables vs 4 for a much neater case.

 

[Scott]

Never trust a calculator with your expensive tech. They're just plain wrong. 3090 can pull 600w in a spike. Calculators only take into account manufacturers TDP rating which doesn't include boost, transient spikes, etc.

Not sure what you mean about the KVM switch etc? What is your use considerations. Are you looking to use Octane and game at the same time?

 

[AdamHattrell245]

Never trust a calculator with your expensive tech. They're just plain wrong. 3090 can pull 600w in a spike. Calculators only take into account manufacturers TDP rating which doesn't include boost, transient spikes, etc.

Cool, thanks - really valuable info!

Not sure what you mean about the KVM switch etc? What is your use considerations. Are you looking to use Octane and game at the same time?

Wouldn't game and render at once. But if the 3090 is driving the monitor whilst it's trying to render, everything crawls to a halt, and you can't really edit the scene as you go. So I plug the monitor into the second card and then you can scroll around and edit things whilst the render window is still processing.

I have found some recent games do let me pick a second graphics card as primary. But most seem to just pick up whichever board the monitor is plugged into as their primary. I've not found a way to get it to switch in software.

My mad idea was to set up a KVM - and then cable each board in as a "separate" computer. Not sure if that would actually work without a restart of the pc anyway...

 

[Scott]

I'm fairly certain you can have the second GPU connected to the monitor (ie the 4070) and still use Octane for the rendering. You just select which GPU you want to utilise.