Neighbour Blocking FTTP Installation

tom_gr7

Life Serving
Hi All,

Wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction... thanks in advance.

I live in a small town in the north of England and we our own property. In our town a smallish company called Youfibre is building a FTTP network.

Im currently getting a dismal service from sky and I work from home. So naturally I have signed up for this for a 1gbps connection. (only 27 quid for 18 months!) We’ve been waiting a few months now whilst the company build the network etc.

The company have recently been to our address, had a look around and explained that they wish to put the fibre cable in the same ducting as our normal BT phone line. This makes complete sense and would be easy to do. Our house was built in 2010 so all cabling is underground anyway.

Unfortunately, part of the ducting is blocked and the blockage happens to be under the neighbours drive. The blockage would prevent my neighbour and my property from getting FTTP.

The blockage on the drive is at the very end of a plain concrete drive and only one foot over the boundary between the two houses. I live at the end of a row of ten houses and to get to our drive we have to cross over two neighbours drives. So their drives are shared. Ours at the end isn’t.

Anyway, my neighbour who happens to a manager of a housing association and is also currently selling his house is being very difficult in allowing permission for the company to dig a small hole to repair the ducting. – The ducting that already holds my and his telephone cabling.

When the workers first asked him he immediately refused and shut the door on them. The workers tried to get some cabling/rods down anyway, but to no avail.

I managed to talk to the neighbour later; I explained to him what they were trying to do and what the problem was. Anyway, he openly told me that he doesn’t have to agree and the company can take him to court if they wished to. I told him that if it was our water, gas, electric etc he wouldn’t be able to refuse and he said that internet isn’t essential. He also told me that virgin media asked him 18 months ago and he flat out refused then too. (I had previously asked Virgin for FTTP)

His wife also chipped in and suggested that they can’t agree as the new buyer has already agreed to buy. I asked if he could speak to the new buyer and see if they would agree or not. We usually get on well and have done for many years. So it was surprising to find that he was being so difficult.

anyway, the next day he told me that the new owner and he will only agree if they can supervise the work, if the work is tidy and the hole that is made is small. I can understand where they are coming from, but it’s a solid concrete drive and the hole would be filled in with concrete anyway. So its not as if its not going to match etc.

I'm quite a tactful person, so i was thankful and polite etc. Obviously, not wanting to provoke a negative response. I'm hoping that it will go ahead.

However, My question is that I am concerned that my current neighbours and the new neighbours could later change their minds and don’t allow/stop the company from doing the repair work for the ducting and install the cabling.

What are my rights in this case? I asked the company this and the call taker just said it would be above his head and it would go up to management.

Ideally we would have liked to live in this house for another 10-15 years and it wont be long until FTTP is essential and FTTC is obsolete. So it doesn’t seem fair that someone can stop someone else accessing a utility like FTTC indefinitely.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Can I ask the company to take him to court?

Can I see a solicitor and take him to court myself? Obviously this would cost me and probably impact/delay the sale of his house.

Thanks for the advice.
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
Hi All,

Wonder if anyone can point me in the right direction... thanks in advance.

I live in a small town in the north of England and we our own property. In our town a smallish company called Youfibre is building a FTTP network.

Im currently getting a dismal service from sky and I work from home. So naturally I have signed up for this for a 1gbps connection. (only 27 quid for 18 months!) We’ve been waiting a few months now whilst the company build the network etc.

The company have recently been to our address, had a look around and explained that they wish to put the fibre cable in the same ducting as our normal BT phone line. This makes complete sense and would be easy to do. Our house was built in 2010 so all cabling is underground anyway.

Unfortunately, part of the ducting is blocked and the blockage happens to be under the neighbours drive. The blockage would prevent my neighbour and my property from getting FTTP.

The blockage on the drive is at the very end of a plain concrete drive and only one foot over the boundary between the two houses. I live at the end of a row of ten houses and to get to our drive we have to cross over two neighbours drives. So their drives are shared. Ours at the end isn’t.

Anyway, my neighbour who happens to a manager of a housing association and is also currently selling his house is being very difficult in allowing permission for the company to dig a small hole to repair the ducting. – The ducting that already holds my and his telephone cabling.

When the workers first asked him he immediately refused and shut the door on them. The workers tried to get some cabling/rods down anyway, but to no avail.

I managed to talk to the neighbour later; I explained to him what they were trying to do and what the problem was. Anyway, he openly told me that he doesn’t have to agree and the company can take him to court if they wished to. I told him that if it was our water, gas, electric etc he wouldn’t be able to refuse and he said that internet isn’t essential. He also told me that virgin media asked him 18 months ago and he flat out refused then too. (I had previously asked Virgin for FTTP)

His wife also chipped in and suggested that they can’t agree as the new buyer has already agreed to buy. I asked if he could speak to the new buyer and see if they would agree or not. We usually get on well and have done for many years. So it was surprising to find that he was being so difficult.

anyway, the next day he told me that the new owner and he will only agree if they can supervise the work, if the work is tidy and the hole that is made is small. I can understand where they are coming from, but it’s a solid concrete drive and the hole would be filled in with concrete anyway. So its not as if its not going to match etc.

I'm quite a tactful person, so i was thankful and polite etc. Obviously, not wanting to provoke a negative response. I'm hoping that it will go ahead.

However, My question is that I am concerned that my current neighbours and the new neighbours could later change their minds and don’t allow/stop the company from doing the repair work for the ducting and install the cabling.

What are my rights in this case? I asked the company this and the call taker just said it would be above his head and it would go up to management.

Ideally we would have liked to live in this house for another 10-15 years and it wont be long until FTTP is essential and FTTC is obsolete. So it doesn’t seem fair that someone can stop someone else accessing a utility like FTTC indefinitely.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Can I ask the company to take him to court?

Can I see a solicitor and take him to court myself? Obviously this would cost me and probably impact/delay the sale of his house.

Thanks for the advice.
I have no idea on the legal standpoint but just wanted to voice support and perhaps a couple of thoughts.

It would be far better in the long term if you were able to do it amicably obviously. I can sort of understand where your current neighbour is coming from (although certain their being unnecessarily difficult), but when does your new neighbour move in? You may find that the current neighbour has told them something not necessarily accurate (being diplomatic) to avoid them agreeing so that they can not have to allow the work until the transfer is done.

Have you met the new neighbours?

I would where at all possible try working with the new neighbours on the matter as it sounds like your current one is just at the end of their tether, I know how stressful a house move can be, there may be extenuating personal circumstances that are making them be difficult.

Or is there some time factor where the company need to get in there asap?
 
D

Deleted member 17413

Guest
You dont actually have any, and your neighbour is right...
Internet isnt classed as essential, and its on their land. Nothing you can do without their permission.

Best way is to agree to them supervising it etc. and get teh engineers in as soon as they possibly can. Tell the guys they need to be tidy as possible when they arrive, but once they break the concrete theres no going back anyway...
 

Bhuna50

Author Level
When purchasing the house, I assume there was some sort of agreement in place for right of access via that part of the land (the drive). Check that agreement / clause and see if that also included right for repairs etc to any amenities / facilities (regardless of type). its likely in the deeds so you will need to get in touch with solicitor probably anyway for advice on this.

I assume that you are all jointly liable for the state of the driveways / access so if it ever needed repair etc how are the bills split? Out of interest do you pay any management fee / service charge at all covering any shared areas / facilities?



OK - other suggestions:

i) be tough with the neighbour and whisper in a Bruce Willis croaky voice "I can make it hard for you to sell this property" and then empty all your bins out on your property out the front making the neighbour hood look rough and horrible LOL...

ii) make something happen to your existing telephone cable, so they have to come out and dig up his nice driveway anyway :D :D LOL
 

Bhuna50

Author Level
Out of interest, could they potentially reach the blockage to try to clear it, if they dug the hole in your part of the driveway and then went under his?
 

AleTax

VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
I have no idea on the legal standpoint but just wanted to voice support and perhaps a couple of thoughts.

It would be far better in the long term if you were able to do it amicably obviously. I can sort of understand where your current neighbour is coming from (although certain their being unnecessarily difficult), but when does your new neighbour move in? You may find that the current neighbour has told them something not necessarily accurate (being diplomatic) to avoid them agreeing so that they can not have to allow the work until the transfer is done.

Have you met the new neighbours?

I would where at all possible try working with the new neighbours on the matter as it sounds like your current one is just at the end of their tether, I know how stressful a house move can be, there may be extenuating personal circumstances that are making them be difficult.

Or is there some time factor where the company need to get in there asap?
In Italy internet is considered an essential good, and in no way can anyone block you from requesting and having internet installed in whatever technology is available where you live. I installed FTTP 1gbps internet connection (in Italy it's called FTTH) as well in my house without even needing to ask my neighbours permission. The workers took the cable up in the whole building and after that connected my house. Funny that in UK it isn't considered essential, even more now that we are in a pandemic situation and a lot of people are working from home...
 
Last edited:

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
In Italy internet is considered an essential good, and in no way can anyone block you from requesting and having internet installed in whatever technology is available where you live. I installed FTTP 1gbps internet connection (in Italy it's called FTTH) as well in my house without even needing to ask my neighbours permission. The workers took the cable up in the whole building and after that connected my house. Funny that in UK it isn't considered essential, even more now that we are in a pandemic situation and a lot of people are working from home...
It really should be by now, unfortunately the laws just haven't caught up.

BT themselves are in the process of transferring the entire countries landline phones to VOIP systems (over internet) and phones are considered an essential service to call ambulances / fire service etc.

Unfortunately the UK is just behind the times in this area.
 

AleTax

VALUED CONTRIBUTOR
It really should be by now, unfortunately the laws just haven't caught up.

BT themselves are in the process of transferring the entire countries landline phones to VOIP systems (over internet) and phones are considered an essential service to call ambulances / fire service etc.

Unfortunately the UK is just behind the times in this area.
And I thought Italy was ages behind lmao. Well we still have places where you can only have 7mb ADSL (and your average speed will be 2-3mbps lmao)
 

SpyderTracks

We love you Ukraine
And I thought Italy was ages behind lmao. Well we still have places where you can only have 7mb ADSL (and your average speed will be 2-3mbps lmao)
Very much the same over here. A lot of rural areas where BT have failed to serve effectively have resorted to creating their own fiber networks to accommodate modern requirements. That's probably exactly what's happening here possibly.
 

TomBerry

Bright Spark
If everything does end up going bad, you could always go with Starlink...no wiring apart from your dish in the garden!
 

TomBerry

Bright Spark
Is it actually in the UK yet? I've heard really good things over on the pilot groups in the states.
It's in the UK now, I have the availability to order it now and be put in the queue for the dish, just can't be affording the near-£500 upfront cost of the dish itself at the moment
 

ubuysa

The BSOD Doctor
I sounds from what you've said that the buyer sounds to be a bit more flexible that the current awkward owner....
anyway, the next day he told me that the new owner and he will only agree if they can supervise the work, if the work is tidy and the hole that is made is small.
There's movement there from a flat "no" to "if we can supervise and the hole is small". That suggests to me that the buyer is a bit more flexible. Could you not wait until completion on the house and the buyer has moved in? For all you know they may want FTTP as well. They may also be agreeing with the current owner for fear of upsetting him before they've completed.

I would wait until the house has changed hands and then try asking the new owner.
 

tom_gr7

Life Serving
Thanks for the replies. Very helpful.
I'll try to answer the points raised in one big post rather than quoting each of you.

I've spent a good few days searching Google and going by the cable installers it is a common problem, however, I couldn't find many searches in Google that would evidence this.

I have found that ultility companies Inc telecomms companies can apply to the local courts if wayleaves are refused. So it may be that if he does refuse this would be an option for the company to proceed with. it's only a small concrete patch that would get replaced by concrete and nothing else would be dig up (lawns, resin drives etc) and this would only take about an hour from what I have been told.

I'm not sure what specifics are in my deeds, but o will check. When buying the house I never even thought to consider where the underground cables were laid and what permissions are documented re repairs.

At the moment he's agreeable, but he's a manager for a housing association (basically a giant private landlord) so he likes to think he knows everything about these sorts of things.

I could wait till he moves but his house has been "sold" since September and he's tried to buy atleast one other property which fell through..so it's likely he's not moving in the next few months. And in the meantime I'm.out of contract with sky and currently paying 40-50 a month. obviously if rather this didn't continue, but I accept that this isn't his concern.

If he does stop the work being completed I'm considering seeing a solicitor myself and see if they have any suggestions. I would openly and honestly tell him this beforehand as legal action would potentially delay any sale to his property. which he obviously wouldn't want and ideally I wouldn't want to do that either. but ultimately I want the service and I don't feel that it is fair that he can control whether I can get it or not. It's not as of his lawn is being dug up, it's a small patch of concrete.

And yes it does sound like the new buyers are more receptive..they are a young couple so it would make sense for them anyway.
 

tom_gr7

Life Serving
@ubusyary for the reply

Yes I could wait until the new neighbours have moved in, however I've absolutely no idea when this is going to be.

The house "sold" a week after going on the market and the buyers have been waiting since (September). The current neighbors have have already had once house fall through.i understand that they are waiting on searches/surveys on another property but even once this is done it could still be another couple of months.

I do appreciate that buying and selling a house is stressful and I'm understanding of that and accept that he wouldn't want the sale to go fall through. But ultimately he's preventing me from accessing an essential service to my property.
 

hol135

Bronze Level Poster
Get a written contract, have the new buyer sign it. Then you will have options available to you...legally speaking. Sorry shouldve mentioned after they buy the property.
 
Last edited:

Rakk

The Awesome
Moderator
Get a written contract, have the new buyer sign it. Then you will have options available to you...legally speaking.
Said new buyer may not be able to sign a document like that until the property is actually theirs?
And if they pull out of buying the house it'd mean nothing anyway

Not sure it's a great way of saying hello to your new neighbours either :)
 

tom_gr7

Life Serving
@hol135
Thanks for the reply.
I don't even know the new owners name lol. Never mind his details to put in a contract.

I did ask my neighbour for the new owners number, but he refused. I guess he's worried about the house sale falling through.

Interestly though, I've done some research and found that the company can apply to the courts if the neighboyr refuses the wayleave.

But also that the current owners should be declaring the wayleave disputes to their solicitor and failure to do this could result in them getting in a lot of trouble if the new owners complained to their solicitor once them move in.

@Rakk

Yea the new owners don't even own the property yet, so they couldn't legally sign any contracts etc.
 

Rakk

The Awesome
Moderator
I did ask my neighbour for the new owners number, but he refused. I guess he's worried about the house sale falling through.
He'd probably get in trouble due to GDPR rules as well if he gave you said number, they would have to agree to give you their number for no rules to be broken
 
Top