Octane III for Gaming

[Jebur]

Hello readers,

From my previous dealings with PCS for desktops I am now looking for a PCS laptop primarily for gaming (price range £2000-2400).

Due to job requirements, I move every couple of months, therefore I am looking for a laptop that can give me a reasonable substitute for desktop gaming. I tend to play a range of games old and new - but I like to keep them all installed if possible.

The spec I've listed below is on the top-end of my budget - would you kind folk give some advice on the build?

Chassis & Display
Octane Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-7700k (4.2GHz) 8MB Cache
Memory (RAM)
16GB HyperX IMPACT 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1070 - 8.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1, G-SYNC
FREE FOR HONOR or GHOST RECON: WILDLANDS with select GTX 10 Series GPUs!
Memory - Hard Disk
NOT REQUIRED
M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3200MB/R, 1800MB/W)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 330W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-8265 M.2 (867Mbps, 802.11AC) +BT 4.0
USB Options
4 x USB 3.0 Ports + 2 x USB 3.1 Type C Ports
Battery
Octane Series 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (82WH)
Keyboard Language
OCTANE SERIES BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD WITH NUMBER PAD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MP FULL HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 4 to 6 working days
Quantity
1

Price: £2,383.00 including VAT and delivery.

Thanks for reading!
Jebur

 

[keynes]

If it is just gaming you could consider the defiance chassis instead. Regardless of your choice you may want to get the killer wireless card

 

[rav007]

In addition to what Keynes said, if you really do want the Octane then CPU is already maxed, and at 1080p, the GTX 1070 will do to be honest.

That 1TB SM961 is an interesting choice though! That is a £400 drive. For a similar price, if you downgrade that to a 512GB, you can put a 2.5" 500GB SATA SSD, and a 2TB 2.5" HDD and essentially triple your storage. I don't know how it will affect games, but I will say this. I have a 256GB SM961 and I have no games installed on it. Most of my games are on a 2.5" HDD, and the ones that take a while longer to load, I put them onto a SATA SSD.

Also with the NVMe drive, you may only occupy one of the 2 M.2 slots. You can't put an M.2 SATA SSD in the other for example. The config is either 1x PCIe NVMe OR 2x M.2 SATA SSD. Worth remembering for the future.

 

[Jebur]

If it is just gaming you could consider the defiance chassis instead. Regardless of your choice you may want to get the killer wireless card

This may be a naive question, but what makes the defiance chassis the better option for a unit designed for gaming?

 

[Jebur]

In addition to what Keynes said, if you really do want the Octane then CPU is already maxed, and at 1080p, the GTX 1070 will do to be honest.

That 1TB SM961 is an interesting choice though! That is a £400 drive. For a similar price, if you downgrade that to a 512GB, you can put a 2.5" 500GB SATA SSD, and a 2TB 2.5" HDD and essentially triple your storage. I don't know how it will affect games, but I will say this. I have a 256GB SM961 and I have no games installed on it. Most of my games are on a 2.5" HDD, and the ones that take a while longer to load, I put them onto a SATA SSD.

Also with the NVMe drive, you may only occupy one of the 2 M.2 slots. You can't put an M.2 SATA SSD in the other for example. The config is either 1x PCIe NVMe OR 2x M.2 SATA SSD. Worth remembering for the future.

Thanks for your input! I'll have a play around with the spec's storage (maybe a can shave off a few £s as well), I estimate I only need 1TB total, so a 512GB SM M.2 with 500GB HDD may do...

 

[keynes]

This may be a naive question, but what makes the defiance chassis the better option for a unit designed for gaming?

It is cheaper, lighter and the difference in performance wouldn't be noticeable for the majority of games.

 

[rav007]

This may be a naive question, but what makes the defiance chassis the better option for a unit designed for gaming?

Further to what Keynes said, I place the defiance as a truly portable laptop that can game, whereas the octane I would say is better for being a desktop-replacement that can be portable. The size difference isn't drastic, but I have the defiance and carry it around with me all the time. I would think twice about carrying around the octane everywhere I go.

In my vision of PC gaming, going from portable to fixed, I see it as Defiance > Octane > mini ITX gaming rig > Full scale gaming desktop. It's more a question of do you want it to be more portable or do you not really care.

 

[Oussebon]

On top of the above, temps can apparently run a bit high with the Octane and the powerful desktop CPUs. It's manageable but can benefit from a bit of tweaking such as undervolting the CPU.

If you don't need that extra CPU performance, which you don't particularly for many games since performance is mostly limited by the GPU, there's not much point putting yourself through the expense and effort.

 

[Jebur]

On top of the above, temps can apparently run a bit high with the Octane and the powerful desktop CPUs. It's manageable but can benefit from a bit of tweaking such as undervolting the CPU.

If you don't need that extra CPU performance, which you don't particularly for many games since performance is mostly limited by the GPU, there's not much point putting yourself through the expense and effort.

With regards to Octane vs Defiance on the subject of performance and temperatures (weight and extra few £100s aren't my biggest concerns).

Would this comparison be assuming the 7700HQ/7820K running at stock speeds? Or with the PCS OC'ing service? I would have thought OC'ing would give more issues with temp than running the 7700K CPU at stock speed, but this is me basing it on my small amount of knowledge (or is it chassis design etc. impacting cooling?).

Thanks again for the help. I'm eager to put my order through, but I want to know I'm making the better choice for performance and longetivity

 

[Oussebon]

Given the price difference if I were buying a Defiance for gaming I'd probably stick with the 6700HQ rather than the 7700HQ as I'm not sure it's worth the £90 extra. Even if you do have the cash. But leaving that aside, I think it's to do with the 7700k (and the 6700k before it) being desktop processors that use far more power and run hotter than the mobile equivalents. Also Intel apparently feed them more voltage at stock settings than they really need.

I suppose one shouldn't knock the Octane's cooling, since being capable of holding a desktop CPU and a GPU upto the GTX 1080 in a chassis is pretty impressive. But it doesn't always manage it comfortably.

See this topic: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?52069-Octane-Tips-Tricks-Info-and-Experiences

I'm not saying every Octane is going to melt - I'm sure a lot of people buy them and don't notice any issues with temps during general gaming. But on the other hand I haven't seen anyone complain about Defiance temps being unmanagable, short of a faulty unit.

Unless you play games that are particularly dependent on the CPU's performance, I'm not sure it's worth the extra expense and potential hassle of having to tame the temps.

I'm not sure about PCS's laptop OCing service and temps. It's worth bearing in mind that the unlocked HK CPUs are only ~100MHz faster than the HQ ones, and PCS's OC "only" takes the core speed a further 100MHz above the turbo boost. I don't know what kind of extra voltage that needs but with a desktop you might be able to do that kind of thing with the stock voltage.

It's not the same league of desktop overclocking where you get a CPU with a 4GHz base speed, 4.2GHz turbo, and ramp it up to 4.8GHz on all cores, as you might with a 6700k.

 

[Jebur]

Ok, apologies if I have broken some forum rules here as Octane advice is now Defiance advice...

How does this look for a Defiance setup?

Chassis & Display
Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 6700HQ (2.6GHz, 3.5GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
16GB HyperX IMPACT 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1070 - 8.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1, G-SYNC
FREE FOR HONOR or GHOST RECON: WILDLANDS with select GTX 10 Series GPUs!
Memory - Hard Disk
1TB WD Blue™ 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 545MB/sR | 525MB/sW)
M.2 SSD Drive
256GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3100MB/R, 1400MB/W)
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 200W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Def. Audio + MIC/Headphone + SoundBlaster X-Fi MB3
Bluetooth & Wireless
GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ WIRELESS-AC 1535 M.2 GAMING 802.11AC + BLUETOOTH 4.1
USB Options
3 x USB 3.1 Type A, 2 x USB 3.1 Type C AS STANDARD
Battery
Defiance Series 4 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (60WH)
Keyboard Language
DEFIANCE SERIES RGB BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Notebook Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MEGAPIXEL WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 4 to 6 working days
Quantity
1

Price: £1,937.00 including VAT and delivery.

Unique URL to re-configure: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/saved-configurations/defianceIII-17/6NJt9eW9kr/

 

[Oussebon]

Memory - Hard Disk
1TB WD Blue™ 2.5" SSD, SATA 6Gb/s (upto 545MB/sR | 525MB/sW)
M.2 SSD Drive
256GB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3100MB/R, 1400MB/W)

If buying 1TB of SSD storage I'd probably just buy the SM961 1TB and be done with it.

If you added the WD Blue SSD thinking it was a WD Blue HDD (I've done that several times since it was added to the list) you could consider the WD Black HDD available near the top of the list.

 

[rav007]

I just wanted to add to the cooling/temps situation for the Octane. Basically the Octane is like a beefed up version of the Vortex that I bought some years ago now, so they improved that and put more powerful hardware into it. However, from images I have seen of the Octane's insides, it only has 2 fans, one dedicated to the CPU and 1 to the GPU. However, it a combined heat-pipe network so some of the heat pipes span across both GPU and CPU, and across both fans. The upside is in theory that more heatpipe means more energy storage and this should lower the overall temperature. However the reality of this setup is whichever one of the CPU or GPU runs hottest, the temperature leaks over to the other. And as the fans are on the outsides of the laptop and the CPU and GPU more in the centre, the effect of temperature leak can't be overcome. There's just this middle spot of heatpipe between CPU and GPU that will just accumulate energy and transfer that to the case.

Now the 17.3in Defiance chassis does also have 1 heat-pipe that is shared between CPU and GPU if I recall correctly, but not 2 or 3, which is important. And secondly, the defiance has 1 fan for the CPU and 2 for the GPU, so it is quite effective at removing the heat. I didn't want to bore the crap out of you all with heat transfer but that's basically why the Octane runs hotter, and until laptop manufacturers stop throwing in more heat pipes and start to actually optimise the air-flow and heat-transfer in their systems using some forms of computational fluid dynamics (which ironically they have the hardware capable of doing it, but probably dont want to invest in the R&D unless the laptop costs as much as a car), we will be stuck with passable cooling systems in laptops for years to come.

 

[Stephen M]

There are some pictures of the Octane innards in this review: http://www.notebookcheck.net/One-K73-5N-Clevo-P771ZM-Notebook-Review.135088.0.html

 

[Scott]

I don't have any issues with the Octane temps now. It takes a bit of fettling but after all the trial and error of various users you can pretty much fire in a set of settings and be done with it in one hit. I'm running a comfortable 4.3Ghz overclock now too.

Lets be honest, raw performance wise the Octane blows the Defiance out of the water. Purely for gaming though? It's unlikely to make any major difference, one or 2 fps in most cases. If it's a general use PC though, that's when things change. I was all for a defiance but I just couldn't get past the raw performance and potential of the Octane. I almost wish I had held out for the 7700k, but there's time for that

 

[chrhil]

If buying 1TB of SSD storage I'd probably just buy the SM961 1TB and be done with it.

If you added the WD Blue SSD thinking it was a WD Blue HDD (I've done that several times since it was added to the list) you could consider the WD Black HDD available near the top of the list.

What they said, but possibly going with a 512GB SM961 and a 1TB WD Black HDD.

 

[Jebur]

Thanks to everyone for their help on this! I've ended up ordering a Defiance. The power of the Octane was very tempting, but as a lot of you have pointed out, for what I want to use this laptop for I wouldn't see marked differences from this extreme machine.

I hope this thread is helpful for those in a similar circumstance as myself. PCS Forum guys and gals, you are awesome.

For those interested in I've copied my final spec.
Chassis & Display
Defiance Series: 17.3" Matte Full HD IPS LED Widescreen (1920x1080)
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i7 Quad Core Processor 7700HQ (2.8GHz, 3.8GHz Turbo)
Memory (RAM)
16GB HyperX IMPACT 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1070 - 8.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1, G-SYNC
M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG SM961 M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3200MB/R, 1800MB/W)
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 230W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Def. Audio + MIC/Headphone + SoundBlaster X-Fi MB3
Wireless/Wired Networking
GIGABIT LAN & KILLER™ WIRELESS-AC 1535 M.2 GAMING 802.11AC + BLUETOOTH 4.1
USB Options
3 x USB 3.1 Type A, 2 x USB 3.1 Type C AS STANDARD
Battery
Defiance Series 4 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (60WH)
Keyboard Language
DEFIANCE SERIES RGB BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
DVD Recovery Media
Windows 10 (64-bit) Home DVD with paper sleeve
Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MEGAPIXEL WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Gold Warranty (2 Year Collect & Return, 2 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Dead Pixel Guarantee
1 Year Dead Pixel Guarantee Inc. Labour & Carriage Costs