PC for scientific computing, machine learning

[tarras]

I'm looking to get a machine for doing scientific computing (Python number crunching), including GPU accelerated machine learning.

I want the machine to last 5+ years so some future proofing is good.

Sadly there isn't much choice regarding ATI vs NVIDIA - CUDA is pretty much the only option. For machine learning late models, GPU ram is key, not so much speed and many colleagues use the 11GB GPUs. The 2080Ti unlocks the ability to do lower-precision calculations which enabled larger and faster models than the 1080Ti.

I'd like the PC to be quiet - I don't really want one as I'd love to continue to use my MacBook Pro but sadly that's not up to the test. Quiet means I'd consider paying extra for water cooling if that works, and a more expensive GPU brand that's better cooled, and even a "sound damped" case.. more expensive fans, etc

System RAM I'd like to max out - 128GB.

Storage I'd like to be fast - so the Samsung SSD on NVMe looks like a good option. I can expand storage later as prices fall.

Some questions:

• Are the CPU water coolers less reliable than air coolers?
• Are the CPU water cooler noise? Even if quieter - is the noise more disruptive? (clicks? pops?)
• Does the case make a difference? Is the Fracta
• 
  
• ss

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Case
FRACTAL DEFINE R6 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i9 10 Core Processor i9-9900X (3.5GHz) 19.25MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® WS X299 PRO: ATX, USB 3.1, SATA 6 GB/s
Memory (RAM)
128GB Corsair VENGEANCE DDR4 3000MHz (8 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
11GB ASUS ROG STRIX GEFORCE RTX 2080 Ti - HDMI, DP
1st Storage Drive
NOT REQUIRED
1st M.2 SSD Drive
1TB SAMSUNG 970 EVO PLUS M.2, PCIe NVMe (up to 3500MB/R, 3300MB/W)

The Division 2 FREE with select SAMSUNG NVMe SSDs!
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
NOT REQUIRED
Power Supply
CORSAIR 850W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H115i PRO Cooler w/ PCS Ultra Quiet Fans
Thermal Paste
COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
2 x 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORTS (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KUK-00001]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 6 to 8 working days
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book - United Kingdom & Republic of Ireland
Price: £4,045.00 including VAT and Delivery

 

[tarras]

also the Python numeric libraries are optimised for Intel sadly as Threadripper would have been good option - benchmarks show really poor performance for Python on Threadripper.

 

[tarras]

questions got cut off so here they are:

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Some questions:

• Are the CPU water coolers less reliable than air coolers?
• Are the CPU water cooler noise? Even if quieter - is the noise more disruptive? (clicks? pops?)
• Does the case make a difference? Is the Fractal Define R6 case the quietest I'll get?
• The ASUS 20280Ti is reported to be better cooled and quieter than the cheaper Zotac/Palit/other ones - thoughts?
• Motherboard - any reason to go up to the Sage board from the x299 Pro?
• How effective is the cooling overall - will these hot and fast CPUs be constantly throttled?
• Memory - I am not convinced by by the sales team when they say I shouldn't be worried the the 8 sticks of RAM aren't from the same kit but from a larger batch they use for system building. I don't want to spend lot of money to have memory slowed down because of not using matched sticks.

Any other suggestions?

I've not selected "first disk drive" as I don't think I need an NVMe SSD as well as another one on a (SATA?) port?

 

[Oussebon]

Are the CPU water coolers less reliable than air coolers?

The reliability is fine; they often have longer warranties than air coolers.

Are the CPU water cooler noise? Even if quieter - is the noise more disruptive? (clicks? pops?)

The quietest cooler will be the Noctua; however the higher end AIO liquid coolers are more effective, and I'd certainly recommend one for one of Intel's furnaces high end CPUs.

Does the case make a difference? Is the Fractal Define R6 case the quietest I'll get?

Out of the box, quite possibly. Of course you could get most any case, replace the fans with quiet ones, manage the fan speeds, and end up with a quiet case; potentially even quieter. But if you want to buy a quiet case that has decent airflow out of the box, the Fractal R6 is a very strong candidate.

Motherboard - any reason to go up to the Sage board from the x299 Pro?

Does the Sage have any features you want that the Pro does not? Also I'm not familiar with them, but you could always look up a review to satisfy yourself the power delivery etc is suitable.

Also note that these are from the configurator that PCS brands as workstation, but similar component choice and a different menu of motherboards are available here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/computers/intel-x299-pc/

Memory - I am not convinced by by the sales team when they say I shouldn't be worried the the 8 sticks of RAM aren't from the same kit but from a larger batch they use for system building. I don't want to spend lot of money to have memory slowed down because of not using matched sticks.

PCS test the systems before shipping. So it will be running at the requisite speeds that you pay for.

The ASUS 20280Ti is reported to be better cooled and quieter than the cheaper Zotac/Palit/other ones - thoughts?

That's true, however it does carry a very large Asus tax.

You could look into fitting your own GPU. The Zotac AMP! is supposed to be on par in terms of the cooling solution.

Alternatively there are GPUs that come with all-in-one liquid coolers (like you're using for the CPU) built into them that can be much quieter than regular air cooled systems, though these are somewhat expensive.

There are also PCS's Liquid Series systems that will be quieter than air cooled systems. These are more expensive and do require periodic maintenance (which you can pay PCS to do, or DIY) but if money is no object and quietness is the order of the day, they would be worth looking at.

 

[tarras]

Does the Sage have any features you want that the Pro does not? Also I'm not familiar with them, but you could always look up a review to satisfy yourself the power delivery etc is suitable.

PCS test the systems before shipping. So it will be running at the requisite speeds that you pay for.

You could look into fitting your own GPU. The Zotac AMP! is supposed to be on par in terms of the cooling solution.

Thanks for the info and suggestions.

If I could continue on a few the points..

* thans for clarifying that PCS test the memory speeds before shipping. Does that also include checking the RAM is running in quad-channel mode. So not just the speed of individual banks but that the full RAM is enabled with quad-channel. There was some confusion with the emails / phone calls I had earlier with PCS.

* how do I work out what the right power supply rating should be? Does an i9 with an RTX 2080Ti means at least 750W? A local shop said that I should go for above the minimum as higher rating means the power supplies last longer as they're not running close to their limit.

* thanks for suggestion other GPUs .. the Zota looks interesting but reviews show it is very noisy.. I guess I'll have to plop for the ASUS as it has both good acoustics and cooling .. again open to other suggestions.

 

[Oussebon]

* thans for clarifying that PCS test the memory speeds before shipping. Does that also include checking the RAM is running in quad-channel mode. So not just the speed of individual banks but that the full RAM is enabled with quad-channel. There was some confusion with the emails / phone calls I had earlier with PCS.

I don't work for PCS, so I can't say for sure.

However, it would be really stupid to sell a system with quad channel memory and not have it working as quad channel. I can only suggest going back to PCS for final confirmation on that.

* how do I work out what the right power supply rating should be? Does an i9 with an RTX 2080Ti means at least 750W? A local shop said that I should go for above the minimum as higher rating means the power supplies last longer as they're not running close to their limit.

I don't know about longevity, but they certainly run more efficiently and can be quieter.

As long as the PSU provides enough power for the system, though, it's fine. And PCS's configurator includes a 20% allowance as well (e.g. if a system actually needed 500W undre heavy load, it would check you had at least a 600W PSU).

This is a handy tool https://outervision.com/power-supply-calculator

If you think that a 9900x on torture load might use ~250", and a 2080 ti would use ~300W, an 850W PSU is more than alright (HDDs, RAM, etc don't use much power at all).
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_RTX_2080_Ti_AMP/31.html
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-9900k-9th-gen-cpu,5847-11.html

If you expect to load the system to 100% often and are aiming for the ~50% PSU load, then a 1000W PSU might keep you closer to that. But I don't think it's a major issue. The RMx PSUs are very good quality units.

 

[tarras]

last question - of the many options available on the configurator for CPU cooling, which one is appropriate for this build?

I've chosen the most expensive here but my priorities are:
- keeping the temperature down to avoid throttling and increasing lifetime of components
- reliability, I don't want to repair this build within 5 years!
- quietness

I'm told the larger fan sizes or the more expensive fans are quieter and better at cooling.

Do I need to go for the most expensive option?

What are the pros/cons between these two options:

1. Corsair H115i PRO Cooler w/ PCS Ultra Quiet Fans
2. Corsair H150i PRO Hydro Cooler without Ultra Quiert Fans but is more expensive. Why?

 

[Oussebon]

What are the pros/cons between these two options:

1. Corsair H115i PRO Cooler w/ PCS Ultra Quiet Fans
2. Corsair H150i PRO Hydro Cooler without Ultra Quiert Fans but is more expensive. Why?

I'd suggest having a look at the Corsair website (one of the advantages of a custom spec PC is you can actually look up the individual parts of what you're buying in advance) but in short the major difference is that the H150i is a 360mm cooler.

Case fans are usually either 120mm or 140mm (and mountings for them on cases take that into account). All in one water coolers are described by the size of the radiators which relates to how many slots and of what size they take.

The 115i is a 280mm cooler (takes up / comes with 2 x 140mm fans).
The H150i is a 360mm cooler (3 x 120mm fans)

While it's true that larger fans generally spin slower and would be quieter, that's not the only factor for noise of course. The model of the fan, the fan speed, and the design of the radiator will all affect that too.

I would ideally say go for the H150i.

It's a very effective cooler being 360mm, and it's also relatively quiet even with the stock fans at max speed

The Corsair H150i Pro RGB AIO Cooler Review: The Quiet Giant

www.anandtech.com

 

[jerpers]

With regards to the GPU, you can fit something like an EVGA one with a built in AIO or, depending on what PCS are currently stocking fit an AIO onto the GPU yourself, there are a few aftermarket kits out there.