Please help, first custom build

[kfryer]

Thanks in advance

Need the large RAM, good cpu and two GPU cards to run two types of chess analysis software. Not really a gamer. Like to upgrade RAM in future.

Advice re storage, cooling and the rest would be much appreciated.

Case
FRACTAL DEFINE R6 BLACK QUIET MID-TOWER CASE
Processor (CPU)
AMD Ryzen 9 3950X 16 Core CPU (3.5GHz-4.7GHz/73MB CACHE/AM4)

The Outer Worlds -AND- Borderlands 3 w/ select AMD Ryzen CPUs
Motherboard
ASUS® ROG STRIX X570-F GAMING (USB 3.2 Gen 2, PCIe 4.0) - RGB Ready!
Memory (RAM)
64GB Corsair VENGEANCE RGB PRO DDR4 3200MHz (4 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2070 SUPER - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready!
2nd Graphics Card
8GB NVIDIA GEFORCE RTX 2070 SUPER - HDMI, 3x DP GeForce - RTX VR Ready!
1st Storage Drive
3TB SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 64MB CACHE
DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Memory Card Reader
USB 3.0 EXTERNAL SD/MICRO SD CARD READER
Power Supply
CORSAIR 1000W RMx SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Processor Cooling
PCS FrostFlow 120 Series RGB High Performance Liquid Cooler
Thermal Paste
ARCTIC MX-4 EXTREME THERMAL CONDUCTIVITY COMPOUND
Extra Case Fans
2x 120mm Black Case Fan (configured to extract from rear/roof)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking
WIRELESS INTEL® Wi-Fi 6 AX200 2,400Mbps/5GHz, 300Mbps/2.4GHz PCI-E CARD + BT 5.0
USB/Thunderbolt Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Operating System
Windows 10 Professional 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [MUP-00003]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365 (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser
Google Chrome™
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
SCOTTISH HIGHLANDS & UK OFFSHORE ISLANDS / N IRELAND
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 10 to 12 working days
Promotional Item
The Outer Worlds -AND- Borderlands 3 w/ select AMD Ryzen CPUs
Welcome Book
PCSpecialist Welcome Book - United Kingdom & Republic of Ireland
Price: £2,817.00 including VAT and Delivery

 

[Oussebon]

and two GPU cards to run two types of chess analysis software.

Simultaneously I take it, each GPU doing maths for one of the programs?

Motherboard
ASUS® ROG STRIX X570-F GAMING (USB 3.2 Gen 2, PCIe 4.0) - RGB Ready!

The ASUS X570-PLUS should be fine and is a lot cheaper. You'll have perhaps seen the configurator whinge that the PLUS doesn't support SLI. However, you're not going to be using SLI for this kind of dual GPU work. Worth arguing the toin coss with PCS tbh as spending extra for a motherboard you don't need isn't good.

Processor Cooling
PCS FrostFlow 120 Series RGB High Performance Liquid Cooler

You will want a much better CPU cooler than this. e.g. H100i / H115i Platinums. This is a powerful processor that puts out a fair amount of heat, and also the cooler you keep it, the higher the frequencies it can maintain.

Consider the Corsair 680X. Not because bling RGB, but because it is excellent for GPU cooling and you've got 2 high end ones in there.

The 2x extra case fans fitted to the 680x on the bottom (the CPU AIO cooler going up top and the other fan mountings being populated by the stock fans) will be great for feeding the GPUs fresh air.

 

[kfryer]

Thank you for advice. I had a feeling that I was skimping on the cooling.

I have attached a link for the reasons for the two gpu's.

Fat Fritz: what videocard to buy

With the release of Fritz 17 with Fat Fritz, you may be strongly motivated to upgrade your computer to enjoy the best experience, or actually upgrade your entire machine if you feel it is time. In this first guide you will be shown the simplest upgrade possible: just adding a fast GPU to your...

en.chessbase.com

Thanks again

Kim

 

[Oussebon]

If that's the basis, then a single 2080 ti could be the better purchase?

If you look at the comments, some random person says:

promatix 11/15/2019 01:01
Best value per1$ RTX 2070 61 ns/1$ 2080 Ti 33 ns/1$ so its better buy two 2070 than one 2080Ti

But, the article author replies:

Albert Silver 11/15/2019 11:17
@Promatix - Those speed numbers you quote are inaccurate. I know someone with a dual 2070 setup and his speed on the start position is around 40knps. With the 2080ti alone I get around 36-37knps. Remember also that two GPUs also means double the power consumption and a much larger and more expensive power supply.

The table of speeds quoted in the article is:

Graphics card	Nodes per second
RTX2080ti	37000​
RTX2080 Super	32000​
RTX2080	29500​
RTX2070 Super	28000​
RTX2070	24500​
RTX2060 Super	22500​
RTX2060	18500​
GTX1080ti	9000​
GTX1660ti	8500​
GTX1660 Super	7700​
GTX1650	3800​
GTX1060	3000​
GTX1050ti	2500​
GTX1050	1700​

So, you do not get 100% scaling with a 2nd GPU (as would be more common in something like Octane renderer, or certain synthetic game benchmarks. A 2070 - assuming Albert Silver means a 2070 and not 2070 Super (2070 sometimes gets used to mean 2070 Super) - gives 24.5k NPS. Double that obs is 49k NPS. Albert Silver says he knows someone running dual 2070s gets only 40k NPS.

The dual GPU setup costs about the same as am RTX 2080 ti, needs to you have a better PSU, consumes more power, produces more heat, and needs better cooling for the system. And PCS also want you to have a more expensive motherboard. And you said you're not really a gamer - if you do do any gaming, dual GPU setups aren't easy and often give no extra performance, just so you're aware.

A 2070 Super x 2 setup might be a little faster than a single 2080 ti, but it does involve a dual GPU setup and all the negatives that brings.

I'd suggest considering either: a) going with a single 2080 ti, and getting a cheaper system overall because you don't need to buy all the extra / upgraded bits to manage dual GPUs or b) get a 2080 ti, and spec the system so you can add a 2nd one if you think you might want to and have the money.

 

[Nomad]

So I won't profess to know exactly what software you are running for what you actually need in terms of CPU/GPU balance, though Id take the above advice on the GPUs.

Things I will comment on:
I am unsure on that motherboard choice. Something like the TUF Gaming Plus which I know PCSpecialist definitely has is better than the X570-F. It's partly preference, but it's better VRM cooling for cheaper which is reasonably essential if there's high CPU loads, which Id consider as you have a 3950x.

You actually don't need liquid cooling at all, and all in one "water cooling" are NOT to be mistaken for custom loop water cooling. They are nowhere near the performance, but nowhere near the price. I've viewed them mostly as just cosmetics. Proper air cooling solutions like Noctua have are far more effective than all in one (closed loop) water coolers especially at the same price. The 3950X under heavy loads and even somewhat substantial OCing (depends on the bin) can survive well on a Noctua U14S (U14a) I can confirm that both of the motherboars above have enough clearance to allow it to fit in the top PCI-E slot. You might also consider the Noctua D15, which pretty much blows any cooling system thats twice its price out of the market for only £100 or so. It'll honestly last you ten years minimum, and Noctua are very good about releasing new mounting systems for pre existing coolers so you're covered for new sockets.

The ram pretty much? Has to change. Again I am partly relying on you requiring the CPU heavily, and when it comes to AMD third gen in the higher end you need to get ahold of 3600Mhz ram to match the infinite fabric as close as possible; you get noticeable performance increases. Preferably CL16, but CL18 won't be the end of the world. Lately Ive found the UK has lost most of its 3600C16 models and the price for what's left is extortionate, so there's no real problem in budgeting down by 3600C18 which Im pretty sure is all PCS sells.

Storage is entirely up to you, but I wouldn't worry about those cheap drives too much. Id possibly just get the smallest drive PCS sells, and individually buy your own drives later. If you don't care about speed, a 5400RPM WD Blue is the most reliable drive on the market, with 4TB only costing about £85. You could step up to WD Black for a bit more performance if you can afford it, or you can also go with a 1tb m.2 drive option like the sabrent rocket (PCS don't really offer any good ones) + some 5400RPM storage like the WD blue.

The PSU is pretty good. No complaints.

As I said, you want to get an eye on those GPUs, and I don't particularly do much in the way of GPU loads that my 2080S is stressed enough to require an additional GPU. As long as you steer clear of things like the MSI Ventus GPUs, try and avoid palit/zotac if its not too much trouble but nothing too wrong if they are, and try and aim for EVGA especially for it's RMA, you'll be in a good situation. I do agree with the suggested switch to a 2080TI though, as we're talking two 2070S here not two 2080S.

Enjoy your build, sounds like a mammoth when it's done.

 

[Oussebon]

ou actually don't need liquid cooling at all, and all in one "water cooling" are NOT to be mistaken for custom loop water cooling. They are nowhere near the performance, but nowhere near the price. I've viewed them mostly as just cosmetics. Proper air cooling solutions like Noctua have are far more effective than all in one (closed loop) water coolers especially at the same price. The 3950X under heavy loads and even somewhat substantial OCing (depends on the bin) can survive well on a Noctua U14S (U14a) I can confirm that both of the motherboars above have enough clearance to allow it to fit in the top PCI-E slot. You might also consider the Noctua D15, which pretty much blows any cooling system thats twice its price out of the market for only £100 or so. It'll honestly last you ten years minimum, and Noctua are very good about releasing new mounting systems for pre existing coolers so you're covered for new sockets.

Not sure anyone mistook open and closed loop cooling.

However, the Noctua isn't as effective as the (granted more expensive) Corsair Platinums, which are very good for their class. Given the way AMD's 3000 series boosts, keeping the CPUs as cool as possible will help performance, and the R9 3950x does use a fair amount of power and benefit from as good a cooling solution as you can reasonably afford.

As for the NH D15 'blowing any cooling system twice its price out of the market' ... no. As excellent as it is for what it is... and I can't really believe this even came up as a question...

Corsair H100i RGB Platinum and H115i RGB Platinum Review - OC3D

Introduction I know what some of you are thinking. Isn’t this just an H100i/H115i Pro with RGB fans? That’s what we thought when this product came through our door. We expected the same coolers and fancier lights, but we were wrong, very wrong. The H1XXi RGB Platinum series is more than just a...

www.overclock3d.net

Also PCS no longer sell the NH D15 anyway. That seem to stop being on sale shortly after a few reports of damaged PC systems from it coming loose in transit (wince). Though that could just be coincidence.

The ram pretty much? Has to change. Again I am partly relying on you requiring the CPU heavily, and when it comes to AMD third gen in the higher end you need to get ahold of 3600Mhz ram to match the infinite fabric as close as possible; you get noticeable performance increases. Preferably CL16, but CL18 won't be the end of the world. Lately Ive found the UK has lost most of its 3600C16 models and the price for what's left is extortionate, so there's no real problem in budgeting down by 3600C18 which Im pretty sure is all PCS sells.

If we're doing the whole "3600MHz is best for Ryzen" thing, to the point of saying things like "the 3200MHz has to change" and there is a "need" for 3600MHz - which given actual testing seems to be overstating it a touch and reliant more on the comments AMD made at launch, then we really do need to make sure we pay attention to CPU cooling and boost frequencies too.


As for:

If you don't care about speed, a 5400RPM WD Blue is the most reliable drive on the market, with 4TB only costing about £85. You could step up to WD Black for a bit more performance if you can afford it,

That's .. I'm not sure what that's based on, but even if factually accurate which I don't see how anyone could prove given the difficulty getting statistics for that, the % differences will be ludicrously small. For actual data, one could look at Backblaze or
https://www.hardware.fr/articles/962-6/disques-durs.html (albeit a bit old now, the French one)

But neither of these are representative of the whole market or what all consumers should consider the most reliable.

The WD Black HDDs are, simply put, just not worth it. If you want a 7200rpm HDD there are many cheaper options.