SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Do you have a performance laptop? No, so I have no idea what you’re referring to? Just because it doesn’t apply to you doesn’t mean you have to disinform others.
Quick note to prospective buyers
- Thread starter SpyderTracks
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ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
I have never needed to repaste any of my laptops (or desktops) either, and I've been using (and working on) home computers since they first appeared in the 1980s - and hobbyist microprocessor based systems before then too.
BUT. And this is a massive BUT. I don't game. Nor do I run any software that drives my CPU/GPU at their performance limits for hours on end. I rather suspect you don't do any of this either, otherwise you'd not be making such a silly statement
PCS sell gaming and high-performance laptops and PCs to customers who (in the main) want to eek out every last ounce of performance to improve their gaming experience, or to reduce their rendering times, or for many other applications requiring maximum performance. PCS sell Ferraris, not Ford Fiestas.
Running CPUs and GPUs at their maximum performance for long periods of time produces a lot of heat, in laptops in particular it's hard to get rid of all that heat, in many desktops too, and if the heat cannot be removed quickly from the CPU/GPU then it begins to degrade the thermal paste. The longer and more often you run your laptop (especially) or your desktop at maximum performance the faster the thermal paste degrades. It's an exponential degradation too, because as the thermal paste degrades it becomes less effective at transferring the heat and the CPU/GPU runs hotter, degrading the paste faster.
If you buy a PCS laptop or desktop that will rarely be asked to run a peak performance (as I do) then it's unlikely you will ever need to repaste them. On the other hand, if you game on the laptop or PC, and particularly if you game regularly and for long periods (or have similar long running performance hungry applications), then you must expect to have to repaste at least once during the life of a laptop, and desktops aren't immune to the need to repaste either.
One thing absolutely every laptop owner MUST do on a regular basis, regardless of whether they run them at high levels of performance or not, is to open the laptop up and clean out the dust and muck from the fan(s) and in particular the heat exchanger(s) right next to them. Failure to clean a laptop regularly and properly will massively reduce its ability to remove the waste heat and as I've explained above, if the laptop cannot extract the heat the CPU/GPU runs hotter and the thermal paste begins to degrade faster.
@SpyderTracks is not scaring buyers, he is educating them. If you buy an off-the-shelf middling performance unit (a Ford Fiesta) that you only use for web browsing, emails, word processing, storing photos, streaming videos, etc. you will most likely never need to repaste it (though if it's a laptop you'd be wise to clean it now and then). But if you buy a high-performance gaming unit from PCS (a Ferrari) and you expect to drive it to the peak of its performance for hours on end then you must expect the thermal paste to become a consumable.
Haywire23z
Active member
I can't speak for laptops, but for 10 years I've built gaming PCs which have been pushed to the limit of their capabilities in gaming and video editing. I've never once had to repaste. Of course, it depends on the quality of thermal paste you use.
Best thing to do is monitor your temperatures. If they start to increase beyond what you're comfortable with, then first you should be clearing out dust and monitoring airflow. If that doesn't work, then you might consider repasting. However doing so increases risk of physical damage of the cpu, heatsink and nearby components and should only be done if you're sure it's necessary.
Repasting (at least in the case of tower PCs) certainly should not be done as part of periodic maintenance.
Best thing to do is monitor your temperatures. If they start to increase beyond what you're comfortable with, then first you should be clearing out dust and monitoring airflow. If that doesn't work, then you might consider repasting. However doing so increases risk of physical damage of the cpu, heatsink and nearby components and should only be done if you're sure it's necessary.
Repasting (at least in the case of tower PCs) certainly should not be done as part of periodic maintenance.
ubuysa
The BSOD Doctor
I take your points, and I too have never needed to repaste - but then I don't game. Personally I would never buy a laptop for any kind of long-term peak performance use (like gaming) just because of the difficulty in cooling a laptop. It's also very clear that most of the serious gamers asking for advice on builds on here are seeking the maximum performance they can afford and they plan to use every last ounce if it - for long gaming sessions too.
You're quite right that regularly monitoring temperatures is essential and is the only reliable way of indicating that you're having cooling issues. I would agree that repasting as part of periodic maintenance makes no sense at all, I don't think we were suggesting that? I do believe though, supported by many posts on here from owners of gaming laptops that are regularly driven hard for long periods, that you should expect to have to repaste a gaming laptop at least once during its lifetime.
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SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
The repasting guidance is specifically for performance laptops, not desktops.
I've had to repaste every gaming laptop I've ever owned at least once during their life. Temperatures creep ever upwards under load and eventually it just makes sense to do it and bring them back down.
The heatsink in a desktop is often many times the height of entire laptop chassis and then there's the all that space...and fans.
The heatsink in a desktop is often many times the height of entire laptop chassis and then there's the all that space...and fans.
barlew
Godlike
I've repasted all 3 PCS laptops I've owned numerous times over 8 years ive been a customer.
carrot_monkey
Bronze Level Poster
Why does PCS want to know the monitor that I am planning to use? how does it affect the power usage when they are all plugged in the mains?
carrot_monkey
Bronze Level Poster
cool I figured that to be honest. and it does go without saying that a monitor should be able to make the most of the GPU.
I think the better phrasing would be for the end user to make sure that they combine their built with a monitor that makes the most out of the GPUs capabilities.
My query was based on the last phrase in this forum's first post:
Monitor: Mainly relevant to gaming, but also to video editing or trading, we need to know what monitor you're pairing it with as that will determine the power requirements of the PC.
basically the reference to power requirements.
cheers!
I think the better phrasing would be for the end user to make sure that they combine their built with a monitor that makes the most out of the GPUs capabilities.
My query was based on the last phrase in this forum's first post:
Monitor: Mainly relevant to gaming, but also to video editing or trading, we need to know what monitor you're pairing it with as that will determine the power requirements of the PC.
basically the reference to power requirements.
cheers!
carrot_monkey
Bronze Level Poster
aaaaaaa
so based on this latest comment of yours then, I take it if you pair your GPU with a feeble monitor, the power the GPU will be consuming will be much much less compared to when connected to 3x 4K monitors.
and thus it all comes full circle. if I am planning to purchase a really fancy 4k monitor(s) in the future then as you said a 850w supply for the GPU would be needed.
in a sense, a very powerful GPU paired with a small PSU reduces the potential of the GPU when paired to a better monitor. best start looking into monitors then as well.
is there a way to check a built against monitor options?
c
so based on this latest comment of yours then, I take it if you pair your GPU with a feeble monitor, the power the GPU will be consuming will be much much less compared to when connected to 3x 4K monitors.
and thus it all comes full circle. if I am planning to purchase a really fancy 4k monitor(s) in the future then as you said a 850w supply for the GPU would be needed.
in a sense, a very powerful GPU paired with a small PSU reduces the potential of the GPU when paired to a better monitor. best start looking into monitors then as well.
is there a way to check a built against monitor options?
c
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
It's best just to post your proposed spec and get advice on it. We've got a lot of good people on here who know their stuff. None of us work for PCS, we're just fellow customers or techies who want people to get the most out of their money and know a bit about hardware.
I'm confused by the suggestion you "will need to" reinstall Windows.
I've been configuring and buying custom spec PCs since the 90s and still haven't reinstalled Windows on any of them. Since Windows 7 it's been very very stable, and I haven't noticed slowdown on any of my computers. Knowing how to upgrade drivers is useful, if Windows Update doesn't do it for you, but otherwise trying to do explicit system maintenance is frankly more likely to break than fix things.
Even my 2016 PC that got upgraded to Windows 10 has been fine. Still using it. Still game on it, occasionally.
I've been configuring and buying custom spec PCs since the 90s and still haven't reinstalled Windows on any of them. Since Windows 7 it's been very very stable, and I haven't noticed slowdown on any of my computers. Knowing how to upgrade drivers is useful, if Windows Update doesn't do it for you, but otherwise trying to do explicit system maintenance is frankly more likely to break than fix things.
Even my 2016 PC that got upgraded to Windows 10 has been fine. Still using it. Still game on it, occasionally.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Then you're missing out on a lot of available performance, if you did a clean install with benchmarks before and after, you'd see how much you're missing out on. It's a basic necessity on any performance machine
You need to know basic windows management if you're going to get the best out of your system, doesn't matter if it's a custom PC or off the shelf, but it's a basic recognised way of getting back to clean performance to clean install every once in a while, I do it annually.
Reinstalling Windows has been a REVOLUTION to my gaming performance
Hi, I cannot, simply CAN. NOT. stress enough how much of a difference reinstalling windows was for my graphics performance. Not only has it fixed lots of random issues which I will go into, but it has increase my performance by 50-100%. NO. EXAGGERATION. We all know that a reinstall can help, I...
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This is probably not the thread for this discussion, but: I disagree. There's nothing running on my system that I wouldn't reinstall on a clean installation. I also put two days into configuring the OS, which is a massive overhead if I have to do it again.
There is nothing that reinstalling Windows would do to speed up my system.
There is nothing that reinstalling Windows would do to speed up my system.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
If you're having to do that, you're not doing it right, for any app configs that aren't cloud connected, you just back up the ini files, and copy them back over, there should be zero setup on a windows install these days. If it's taking more than an hour to install windows and all programs and have them configured as you need, then you're not doing it the way you can. Windows and programs have moved along a lot since XP days.
Not correct I'm afraid, you'd be amazed if you tried it. it's not the programs that cause the performance degredation, it's the OS itself.
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Hi SpyderTracks. Where would one find said ini files? For example I have Helicon Focus. I have Explorer set to show hidden files.
In Windows > Program Files > Helicon Software > Helicon Focus 8 there is the executable HeliconFocus.exe and a lot of .dll files and 8 folders with different names. Searching Windows > Program Files > Helicon Software > Helicon Focus 8 for .ini shows no results.
Thank you.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
Often .ini files are in the user profile, at least on modern applications. If you google the programs configuration location you should be able to find it.
I guess the .ini file comment really depends on the app. Depending on what the architecture of the app is, there may well be no .ini files but there could be .config files, there could be registry settings in the user hive, etc, etc. To be honest, .ini files is also a pretty old way to store stuff.
SpyderTracks
We love you Ukraine
.ini were just an example, it's just the config directory which will be pretty standard on any half decent app from the previous 5 years as app layer and configuration layer are now separate components.