Some advice for 3d creators rather than gamers please?? :)))))

[DAS]

Hi everyone,
as the title says , most of the threats i read deal with gaming laptop builds...how about rendering workstations for a change?
So this is what troubles me.
The Nova used to come with Ryzen desktop cpus. If they bring it back then i would choose a configuration with Ryzen 7 3700x and RTX 2070.
Now, there is a major upgrade on cpus and gpus the last 2 months. My question to you all is if its better to aim for desktop cpu or a laptop cpu.
To be more specific the ryzen 7 3700x (DTR) or the new ryzen 7 5800h / ryzen 9 5900hx laptop processors?
I never actually understood the difference.
When we say desktop processor on a laptop that clearly means much more power and performance...right?...or not?
Although checking the latest benchmarks it seems that the new ryzen laptop cpus have similar performance with the previous desktop ones...
So if you have any experience with workstations for 3d build and render what would choose and why :

1. Ryzen 7 3700X / RTX 2070
2. Ryzen 7 5800H or Ryzen 9 5900HX / RTX 3070

in any case the systems will have 32Gb 3200hz ram and 1tb 970 samsung evo

Thoughts??????

thank you

 

[john coomey872]

What is your budget?

My 2 cents on the Desktop vs Laptop, I would go with the Desktop. You will get more bang for you buck plus it should be more reliable to leave on for long periods of time while it is rendering, that depends on what you are rendering if it will be running over night. You can also design it to be quieter than a laptop.

For rendering, you will definitely benefit from a CPU with the highest core count your budget can afford. I use my machine just for animating, not rendering which means a high core count would be wasted as the processes is not programmed to utilise cores, so I went with a higher single core clock speed.

I am not certain about this but I believe higher VRAM on a graphic card will help speed up your renders.
A good M.2 drive would be helpful for quicker renders but I don't understand it well enough to explain. Its worth researching.

I am not an expert, hopefully one of the forum genius' will pop on and give you better/clearer answer.

 

[DAS]

It is highly unlikely the Nova will return with the 2070 as that generation of GPUs are being phased out in favour of the incoming 3000 series ones...whether the Nova continues but with an updated GPU is a different matter.

As to desktop CPUs in a laptop vs laptop CPUs: If your creating work, rendering, whatnot requires high CPU load, then I'd go with a DTR and a desktop CPU. If a lot of your work is GPU bound, then a laptop CPU is okay as it won't take the brunt of the workload. If you need CPU and GPU, then I'd go with the DTR again, unless budget dictates otherwise.

Hi John and Nursemorph, thank you both for your comments. Today I read an article from a CAD manager about cad program requirements.
Quoting :

“ The first thing to consider for most CAD programs (think AutoCAD, BricsCAD, Civil 3D, Revit, SolidWorks, etc.) is that processor selection is about frequency (clock rate) more than anything else. CAD applications tend to mainly run on a primary core, so it is still better to have fewer, faster cores than more, slower cores....”

“...The key parameters to know are the base frequency (speed that all the cores can achieve) and boost frequency (maximum speed for a single core). If you consider that other applications are also running on the computer besides CAD (think office applications, rendering tools, analysis modules, etc.), we can see that the best processor/core combination will have the highest base frequency and the highest boost frequency. In this case, it would be better to have an 8-core processor at a 2.9-GHz base frequency boosted to 5.1 GHz than a 10-core processor at a 2.2-GHz base frequency boosted to 4.8 GHz, for example...”

With this in mind and doing some research the best choice for cpu would either
i7 10875h or i9-10980HK with the later being very expensive on laptops.

then I read about the new Ryzen 5000 series and how they reached and sometimes exceeded single core performance some of the intel ones.

although am not very keen with the intel cpu I think the best choice is to find a system with I 7 10875h and an RTX 2070 SUPER OR 3070 MAX P.

below you can read both articles.

Minimum CAD Workstation Specs for 2021 | Cadalyst

CAD Manager Column: You want to equip your CAD users with the right hardware to help them do their best work. Your boss wants to spend as little as possible. What are the minimum requirements that will address everyone’s needs?

www.cadalyst.com

Ryzen 5000 and Zen 3: Benchmarking Performance Measures for CAD | Cadalyst

Herrera on Hardware: Should you equip your CAD workstations with AMD processors? This exercise provides some performance data for comparison, plus insights about examining a CPU’s clock rates.

www.cadalyst.com

 

[john coomey872]

Other than what you now wrote I can not comment on how CAD usings a computers resources but if you are spending alot of you time creating/designing on CAD and then rendering, it would make sense to find a balance based on your budget. If your renders are not very intense then I wouldn't be concerned with the highest core count.

Regarding Intel vs AMD. AMD seems to be the way to go at the moment, as it seems to be out pacing Intel in most if not every respect

 

[FerrariVie]

The Nova is out of stock for the 1660Ti, but the configurator still says it might be back in 5 days or so. However, as @Nursemorph said, it is unlikely that the nova will get the 2070 back (ever). They're probably going to start shipping a new version with ryzen 5000 and RTX 3000 by May/June (my own guess) that will tick all your boxes regarding single-core and GPU, but expect a price bump as well and the availability may be short (we're having a shortage of silicon chips globally that will last for a good number of months).

So if the GPU doesn't matter much for you (you're not gaming, right?) and the 6Gb 1660Ti would be good enough, then I would prefer to have the Nova because of the CPU choices and the description of CAD's usage that you posted. My line of thought is based on:

	Intel Core i7-10850H	AMD Ryzen 7 3700X
PPT (Package Power)	45W	65W
Core Count	6	8
Cache	12Mb	32Mb
RAM (max clocks supported)	2933Mhz	3200Mhz (stock) / 3600Mhz (with overclock)
Base Clocks	2.70 GHz	3.60 GHz
Boost Clock (1-core)	5.10 GHz	4.40 GHz
Boost Clock (all cores)	3.40 GHz	4.00 GHz

To answer your question: Yes, more power in this case will mean more performance and also means that it can stand higher clocks on all cores and for longer periods. The only thing you need to check is: Is CAD only using one or more cores? Because I don't believe it's just one, and if it is, that should change soon. There is no single CPU today on the market that has only 1 core, so it's kind of stupid for CAD to not use those.

Some things that I've read in the article also support my suggestion:

• "Finally, only processors with high amounts of cache and hyper-threading (Intel’s simultaneous multithreading) should be considered."
• "The key parameters to know are the base frequency.. and boost frequency"
• "If you need to cut costs on new workstations, the GPU is one place to do it, because general CAD/BIM users don’t need a super-expensive GPU. The RAM and SSD specifications are far more important than GPUs"..."A 6-GB GPU, like an NVIDIA GeForce 2060 series, is a great value for the money."
• "Therefore, the RAM you install should be the highest speed the processor supports"

Then we come to the final bullet, which has not been mentioned yet: RAM. Even though you can only buy laptop RAM with PCS up to 2666Mhz and on the market up to 3200Mhz, the desktop Ryzen CPUs are unlocked and that allows the RAM to be overclocked to higher speeds. The corsair vengeance 2666 that PCS sells is an excellent RAM and that can be indeed overclocked to 3600Mhz (I can share some guides on how to do so).

If you still don't know enough about DTRs, you can find some info on this other thread regarding advantages and drawbacks:

15,6" RECOIL IV vs 15,6" PROTEUS VII ?

Hi all, which one is better in terms of build quality (body, chassis )? Recoil says : Aluminum Chassis Proteus : Brushed Aluminum Cover Both of them will have the same specs and that's : i7 10875H Processor (i was going for the Ryzen 9 but its slower than the i7 in single core performance) 32...

www.pcspecialist.co.uk

 

[Scott]

From my understanding CAD design likes a high frequency, much like photoshop, but Rendering prefers maximum core grunt.

DTRs are always going to be more powerful than the Laptop counterpart. I would personally hold off for the next gen kit, with the 5800X and 3060(ti) options.

 

[DAS]

Hi FERRARIVIE and SCOTT...thank you very much for your input. To answer your question in regards to autocad and 3d programs like rhino and 3ds max and also 3d render machines like Vray, Lumion twinmotion and corona. You will see exactly why is confusing. After a lot of research and reading i understood that :

1. All 2d and 3d programs are mostly based on single core power. So better have fewer cores and powerful single core performance rather than many cores with lower single performance. Best scenario is to have power from both worlds.

2. Render machines like Lumion and Twinmotion use mainly GPU power. Vray utilizes both gpu and cpu . Corona renderer strictly cpu so more cores with great single performance will benefit a lot.

So the ideal laptop will be multicore with high single core power and a fast GPU. That means a budget of 3000-4000 plus...With this kind of budget i get a 10 times more powerful desktop. So back to square one.

Whatever the case is , the ram am installing will be for sure 64 gb and my ssd will be the least a samsung 980 evo 500gb.
The problem with the new ryzen is timeframe ...i can't wait for 3-4 months and am sure they gonna cost more. So i thought of something else to get the best from both worlds without braking the bank.

I took sometime exploring my options through PCspecialist and i decided that since Ryzen 7 3700x is not available with rtx 2070 or
rtx 3060/70 then i will leave it out of the equation .

Also since my lne of work requires a new laptop every 3 max 4 years then i shouldn;t go crazy...also all the softare companies since two months ago they were pretty fine with the use of rtx 2070 cards...

So my selection of systems are : ( all options have 64gb ram and 970 evo plus ssd and i donlt care about looks or weight)- CHECK THE TABLE BELOW.

What is a RTX 2070 refresh???? what's the difference with normal or super 2070? I've come across them but not so much info in regards to the other cards. Also as i understood a new RTX 2060 is much faster than a 2070 super...or am i wrong?

Thank you all for reading

 

[FerrariVie]

What is a RTX 2070 refresh???? what's the difference with normal or super 2070? I've come across them but not so much info in regards to the other cards. Also as i understood a new RTX 2060 is much faster than a 2070 super...or am i wrong?

Thank you all for reading

Sorry, you're totally wrong there if you're really meaning 2060. And even if you meant 3060, it is still not much faster than a 2070 super, it is on par. The 2060 is the worst of all those GPUs mentioned.

The 2070 refresh was an update on memory that navidia made in 2020, so it's basically the same chip as de 2070, with better memory that's gives around 1 or 2% performance increase and lower temperatures.

The 2070 super uses a slightly improved chip, so it is indeed a bit better overall than de 2070 refresh (my guess is around 5%)

 

[DAS]

Yes you are right, I meant 3060..that was a misspell... 🤦‍♂️