System freezes when idle

[macjim]

No rush, it's a pain when it happens but it's not stopping me using the PC.

When it freezes, the first visual sign is the desktop apps stop, I have an analog clock app and the second hand stops moving.
At this point you can no longer access the desktop apps or use the window taskbar menu, initially I thought explorer was
freezing, I wrote a shell script to kill/restart explorer and placed it on the desktop, but I can’t click on it during a freeze. I also
wrote a script to cause a BSOD, it works outside a freeze but again it’s not clickable during a freeze event.
I can still access firefox during a freeze, I can navigate to different websites for a few minutes, then that also freezes. At this
point the mouse stops also, and this is normally when I just power cycle.

Next time it goes I’ll see what else still works.

I'm mulling over re-installing windows, but I'm weighing up the inconvenience of the freezes against re-installing all my setups again.

 

[macjim]

I had another freeze this morning, 11:18:19, starting to think it's related to downloading files, as I was downloading multiple files from Volafile when it froze - I've seen this behavior a few times before.

When it froze, initially I could click on the desktop, I have a desktop icon which runs a backup for Palemoon - when I clicked it - it started to open the window up but didn't fully initialise.

I could still click on the windows task bar, and I could click on the Windows menu items, but again while they popped an icon up, they never fully initialised. Weirdly I have ImgBurn installed in the Windows menu, it popped it's full window up when selected - Didn't try to see if the software actually worked. When I tried launching Excel it never started.

I had a directory open and I could click in the items there, I clicked on a gif but while the viewer opened it was all black e.g. not the actual image. same with video files

The task manager was open, while you could click on the processes, it wouldn't do anything e.g. I tried to restart explorer - but nothing happened.

Keyboard lights were on, but if you typed in a browser, nothing happened - might try to see if the caps lock light responds the next time.

Firefox browser still allowed you to go to different sites, even pop new tabs.

After 10 mins, I tried to see if I could add a new USB wireless mouse, but when I swapped it out for my current wireless USB receiver (Same USB slot) it wouldn't connect the new mouse and the old one wasn't recognised either, had to power cycle at that point.

 

[VirtualDevil]

Without reading too much on the history, have you still got your eye on the RAM as an issue?

I ask as I had a very similar issue when I received my PC whereby it would freeze idle or while downloading stuff, not causing a BSOD and only allowing me to right click open task manager. Couldn't restart, so had to manually boot from the tower.

Memtest passed for me but tested both sticks singularly and caught a freeze on one of them, PCS replaced the ram for me and I haven't had a freeze since.

Apologies if this has all been tried and test.

 

[macjim]

Initially it was thought to be the 4x 8Gb 3600MHz AMD issue, but I've been only running with the original 2x PCS sticks since early March.

I tested all RAM sticks, 2x original and 2x additional sticks I bought with Memtest, never an issue with them but I always tested them in pairs.

mmmhhhh, might be worth going back and testing them singularly and I may swap out the original two for the two I bought from Amazon. Not sure if I've already done that, can't remember tbh.

Cheers.

 

[ubuysa]

Initially it was thought to be the 4x 8Gb 3600MHz AMD issue, but I've been only running with the original 2x PCS sticks since early March.

I tested all RAM sticks, 2x original and 2x additional sticks I bought with Memtest, never an issue with them but I always tested them in pairs.

mmmhhhh, might be worth going back and testing them singularly and I may swap out the original two for the two I bought from Amazon. Not sure if I've already done that, can't remember tbh.

Cheers.

It really would be useful to do a fully clean install to confirm whether this is or is not a software issue.

You could use a disk imaging tool like Macrium Reflect Free to image your current system drive. If it turns out that a reinstall of Windows doesn't help (and that it's a hardware issue) you could restore your existing system image and be back where you are now.

Still nothing of note in the first dump but I'm still checking (when I have the time, I'm quite busy for the next couple of days).

 

[macjim]

I've swapped out the orginal 2x 8Gb PCS RAM, and repalced it with the other 2x sticks from Amazon.

I will try to a full re-install at the weekend, I've got EaseUS Backup software - I do daily Inc/Full weekly User/System dumps, I'll clone the system over the weekend and save to my internal backup drive.

 

[VirtualDevil]

Handy to note that my sticks never failed Memtest but one did freeze when running the system with 1 stick at a time.

Whilst my replacements ( 2x8gb 3600) were coming I had some old, yet same corsair vengeance, 2x8 3200 which I ran the entire weekend prior without issues.

Since my replacements I havent had a single freeze.

Hope you get your issue resolved swiftly mate. The guys on the forum and at PCS are top notch so you'll be sorted out one way or another.

 

[ubuysa]

Handy to note that my sticks never failed Memtest but one did freeze when running the system with 1 stick at a time.

Whilst my replacements ( 2x8gb 3600) were coming I had some old, yet same corsair vengeance, 2x8 3200 which I ran the entire weekend prior without issues.

Since my replacements I havent had a single freeze.

Hope you get your issue resolved swiftly mate. The guys on the forum and at PCS are top notch so you'll be sorted out one way or another.

I've had a look at the status of every non-Microsoft process you had running in that first dump and I can find nothing unusual nor any indication of a frozen thread. I've not downloaded the later dump because I really don't think it's going to show anything different and trawling through every process in a user-initiated dump is exceedingly tedious!

The unusual way in which the system locks up/freezes doesn't sound to me like a software issue, though it could still be. It doesn't sound like flaky RAM either but then RAM issues can manifest themselves in an almost infinite number of ways.

It's encouraging that you've not had any freezes since replacing the RAM, that's a big clue right there. If it does happen again I think a clean reinstall of Windows and drivers is the best next step.

PS. Sorry for the delay in replying, I had to guide some tourists on a walk in the lower hills yesterday - and in 30C and in full on sunshine. It was a bit silly to attempt it really but when they're only here for a week they kind of insist.

 

[macjim]

Windows and drivers is the best next step.

PS. Sorry for the delay in replying, I had to guide some tourists on a walk in the lower hills yesterday - and in 30C and in full on sunshine. It was a bit silly to attempt it really but when they're only here for a week they kind of insist.

It's alright, it was peeing down here yet again I'd have been out in the Sun also.


I had a freeze yesterday afternoon, using the Amazon RAM - so looks unlikely to be RAM related.

I created a new Flash drive with the Windows Media Creation Tool, looks to be the May 2021 Update, I'll try and make some time at the weekend to re-install the OS.

 

[macjim]

Well, we're now back to a fresh install.

Edition Windows 10 Pro
Version 21H1
Installed on ‎30/‎05/‎2021
OS build 19043.928
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.551.0


Only thing I've installed is Firefox, Armoury Grate wanted to install itself, so I let it.

Nvidia Driver is 456.71, I was running 461.92 previously, I downloaded 466.67 before I re-installed the OS - I'll keep what windows installed, initially.

Not sure what AMD chipset driver it installed, I have the latest amd_chipset_software_2.13.27.501 saved to by recovery drive if need be.

Running the Amazon 2x 8GB RAM @3600 MHz - lets see how stable it is before I add the other memory back - here's hoping

It's like a new PC, I won't be adding all the "helper" sofware again

 

[ubuysa]

Well, we're now back to a fresh install.

Edition Windows 10 Pro
Version 21H1
Installed on ‎30/‎05/‎2021
OS build 19043.928
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 120.2212.551.0


Only thing I've installed is Firefox, Armoury Grate wanted to install itself, so I let it.

Nvidia Driver is 456.71, I was running 461.92 previously, I downloaded 466.67 before I re-installed the OS - I'll keep what windows installed, initially.

Not sure what AMD chipset driver it installed, I have the latest amd_chipset_software_2.13.27.501 saved to by recovery drive if need be.

Running the Amazon 2x 8GB RAM @3600 MHz - lets see how stable it is before I add the other memory back - here's hoping

It's like a new PC, I won't be adding all the "helper" sofware again

Take things slowly, be sure it's not freezing before you add additional software.

TBH you don't need most 'helper' software anyway.

 

[macjim]

Day 12, no freezes

Still running with 2x 8 Gb RAM.

Installation history is below, I've setup my backups for an incremental backup so I can roll back any changes which cause issues.

30 May - Clean Install
VLC
Armory Crate
Firefox

31 May
Chrome
AMD Installer - Chipset drivers
Intel Driver Support( Wifi AX200/Bluetooth)
Winrar
MS HEVCV Codec

4 June
Windirstat
MS Office 365
Moved old Firefox Profile across from backup

5 June
HP Printer
MPEG-2 Video Codec - From Microsoft

6 June
New Intel Driver Support( Wifi AX200/Bluetooth) 22.50.1.1/22.50.0.4
EaseUS Backup Software

7 June
iCUE 4
DCS - Relinked to shortcut links to G: Drive


Still to Add

Steam Client
Origin Games
EA Games
UBI Soft Games
EPIC Games
Outlook email Archive Re-Integration
Latest NVidia Driver

I had a Windows Hardware error, looking at the time, it appears to have been a BT USB issue, mouse or head phones - I expect.
Also had iCUE crap out a few times, no idea why - might remove it and re-install( Don't really use it too much)

I added the logs https://1drv.ms/u/s!AoUU74i2sEO7tAzb8XI0ecoUi51U?e=iRn4hP

I'll carry on adding software, and the additional RAM, but overall all things look good and I must have had a software conflict.

 

[ubuysa]

Day 12, no freezes

Still running with 2x 8 Gb RAM.

Installation history is below, I've setup my backups for an incremental backup so I can roll back any changes which cause issues.

30 May - Clean Install
VLC
Armory Crate
Firefox

31 May
Chrome
AMD Installer - Chipset drivers
Intel Driver Support( Wifi AX200/Bluetooth)
Winrar
MS HEVCV Codec

4 June
Windirstat
MS Office 365
Moved old Firefox Profile across from backup

5 June
HP Printer
MPEG-2 Video Codec - From Microsoft

6 June
New Intel Driver Support( Wifi AX200/Bluetooth) 22.50.1.1/22.50.0.4
EaseUS Backup Software

7 June
iCUE 4
DCS - Relinked to shortcut links to G: Drive


Still to Add

Steam Client
Origin Games
EA Games
UBI Soft Games
EPIC Games
Outlook email Archive Re-Integration
Latest NVidia Driver

I had a Windows Hardware error, looking at the time, it appears to have been a BT USB issue, mouse or head phones - I expect.
Also had iCUE crap out a few times, no idea why - might remove it and re-install( Don't really use it too much)

View attachment 26930

I added the logs https://1drv.ms/u/s!AoUU74i2sEO7tAzb8XI0ecoUi51U?e=iRn4hP

I'll carry on adding software, and the additional RAM, but overall all things look good and I must have had a software conflict.

That does look like good news.

The two failures in the Reliability Report there on 08/06/2021 at 07:36 are an application failure due to iCue, as you noticed, and the hardware error is indeed a Bluetooth USB error (BTHUSB). It reports a Bluetooth adapter failing in an unusual way, the driver was unloaded. Mouse or headphones sounds quite likely.

There isn't anything else in your logs that worries me unduly.

 

[macjim]

Day 32 since re-install, no freezing.............................

I re-installed the other 16GB of RAM on Sunday.

So far I've added:

11 June
Pure VPN
BiglyBT

17 June
Steam
Origin Games
Reintegrated Outlook email archive from backup

20 June
UBI Soft Games
EPIC Games
GOG
Glasswire

24 June
ITunes


27 June
Added back the 16GB of RAM, now running 32 GB@3600 MHz.

The two items I still plan to add are the ones I think are the most likely to cause the issue.

1. Desktop gadgets https://windows10gadgets.pro/
2. XBOX 360 wireless controller ( Hardware not supported under the last 2 or 3 OS releases)


For #1 I used it on my old machine, and my work laptop(Win 10 Enterprise) without issues.
For #2 I had to "hack" it to add the driver ( Might just buy a new controller)

Of course the real issue is more likely the plethora of "helper" applications I had previously installed which cleaned the registry etc

 

[ubuysa]

Day 32 since re-install, no freezing.............................

I re-installed the other 16GB of RAM on Sunday.

So far I've added:

11 June
Pure VPN
BiglyBT

17 June
Steam
Origin Games
Reintegrated Outlook email archive from backup

20 June
UBI Soft Games
EPIC Games
GOG
Glasswire

24 June
ITunes


27 June
Added back the 16GB of RAM, now running 32 GB@3600 MHz.

The two items I still plan to add are the ones I think are the most likely to cause the issue.

1. Desktop gadgets https://windows10gadgets.pro/
2. XBOX 360 wireless controller ( Hardware not supported under the last 2 or 3 OS releases)


For #1 I used it on my old machine, and my work laptop(Win 10 Enterprise) without issues.
For #2 I had to "hack" it to add the driver ( Might just buy a new controller)

Of course the real issue is more likely the plethora of "helper" applications I had previously installed which cleaned the registry etc

That's a really great piece of troubleshooting and many congratulations for having the patience and the discipline to carry out this excellent plan. For anyone else reading the thread, THIS is how to troubleshoot a system.

Of course the real issue is more likely the plethora of "helper" applications I had previously installed which cleaned the registry etc

It almost always is these types of application that cause the problems. If the Windows registry needed cleaning then Microsoft would provide a tool to do it.