Customs tax question post-brexit | Page 2 | PCSPECIALIST

Customs tax question post-brexit

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
To put that screenshot in perspective, they are stating that you don’t have to pay.

we shouldn’t be fanning the flames if we haven’t got a request to pay yet.
well, they already told me that I would need to pay VAT to them, which was uncalled for, and my local customs are saying that I would need to pay import VAT here too, unless PCS actually send over documents for the customs and cover that payment somehow, not sure how that works, but please update how your situation changes once your PC reaches the border.
 

ubuysa

OMNIPOTENT
Moderator
To put that screenshot in perspective, they are stating that you don’t have to pay.

we shouldn’t be fanning the flames if we haven’t got a request to pay yet.
Wise words.

well, they already told me that I would need to pay VAT to them, which was uncalled for, and my local customs are saying that I would need to pay import VAT here too, unless PCS actually send over documents for the customs and cover that payment somehow, not sure how that works, but please update how your situation changes once your PC reaches the border.

It is a difficult issue and is just one I think of many such issues surrounding the sudden breaking of long established practices. It's clear I think that since at the time of order the UK was still in the transition period and following the single market rules, PCS would have been obliged to add on UK VAT - they likely had a legal duty to do so. Now however the UK is not part of the single market and not following EU rules, so the goalposts have effectively moved. That's not as 'outrageous' as you seem to think, it's just a consequence of Brexit.

In the absence of any specific terms in either the withdrawal agreement or the trade deal, I would hope that common sense would prevail and that Ireland would accept that since the contract and payment predate the UK's final exit from the EU, they would allow its import without further tax or duty. Sadly common sense isn't something very common where governments are concerned...
 

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
Wise words.



It is a difficult issue and is just one I think of many such issues surrounding the sudden breaking of long established practices. It's clear I think that since at the time of order the UK was still in the transition period and following the single market rules, PCS would have been obliged to add on UK VAT - they likely had a legal duty to do so. Now however the UK is not part of the single market and not following EU rules, so the goalposts have effectively moved. That's not as 'outrageous' as you seem to think, it's just a consequence of Brexit.

In the absence of any specific terms in either the withdrawal agreement or the trade deal, I would hope that common sense would prevail and that Ireland would accept that since the contract and payment predate the UK's final exit from the EU, they would allow its import without further tax or duty. Sadly common sense isn't something very common where governments are concerned...
The outrageous part was that this was without any warning and with no real disclaimers from the sellers side, just a quick email saying that my purchase is now no longer valid and I need to pay up, just like that. I would accept these terms if I knew that this VAT would cover the import VAT at the customs, but without knowing for sure and with such little explanation from PCS side, I fear that I could end up paying VAT to PCS, which puts my order at a high total sum, which would then get another 21% VAT on top when at the border here and I would end up overpaying so much that I would rather cancel and refund even after 3+ months of waiting.
All I ask for is clear communication and details from PCS, I know that it's not their fault for all the government rules and other formalities that happened with brexit, but as Nurse pointed out, they don't even need to charge the VAT that they want to get now
 

ubuysa

OMNIPOTENT
Moderator
The outrageous part was that this was without any warning and with no real disclaimers from the sellers side, just a quick email saying that my purchase is now no longer valid and I need to pay up, just like that. I would accept these terms if I knew that this VAT would cover the import VAT at the customs, but without knowing for sure and with such little explanation from PCS side, I fear that I could end up paying VAT to PCS, which puts my order at a high total sum, which would then get another 21% VAT on top when at the border here and I would end up overpaying so much that I would rather cancel and refund even after 3+ months of waiting.
All I ask for is clear communication and details from PCS, I know that it's not their fault for all the government rules and other formalities that happened with brexit, but as Nurse pointed out, they don't even need to charge the VAT that they want to get now
I would hope, and TBH expect, that if you have to pay VAT on import that PCS would refund you the UK VAT. The process to get that refund and then get it to you may be a long one however because this is all so new.

I do understand your anger here but companies have to follow the tax rules that are in place at the time. When you placed your order nobody knew whether there would be a trade deal nor what the terms were likely to be, so there would have been no way PCS could have advised you of anything. And as I've mentioned, at the time of your order they were under a legal obligation to charge you VAT.

I would suggest you wait and see what happens when it gets to you. If you have to pay VAT on import I would then contact PCS asking for a refund of the UK VAT you've paid (with proof of VAT paid on import of course).
 

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
I would hope, and TBH expect, that if you have to pay VAT on import that PCS would refund you the UK VAT. The process to get that refund and then get it to you may be a long one however because this is all so new.

I do understand your anger here but companies have to follow the tax rules that are in place at the time. When you placed your order nobody knew whether there would be a trade deal nor what the terms were likely to be, so there would have been no way PCS could have advised you of anything. And as I've mentioned, at the time of your order they were under a legal obligation to charge you VAT.

I would suggest you wait and see what happens when it gets to you. If you have to pay VAT on import I would then contact PCS asking for a refund of the UK VAT you've paid (with proof of VAT paid on import of course).
I will try to clarify as much as I can with PCS before the PC is dispatched. In the event that I have to pay VAT again and for example PCS refunds the UK VAT, I would still end up losing money, simply because the import VAT would be higher than UK VAT, like take the PC costs 2500 euros without any VAT, I pay 20% UK VAT, which would be 500eu, so the total price/value of the item that comes up to the customs is 3000eu, then I pay 21% of 3000, which is 630, PCS refund me 500eu, I end up losing 130eu.
 

ubuysa

OMNIPOTENT
Moderator
I will try to clarify as much as I can with PCS before the PC is dispatched. In the event that I have to pay VAT again and for example PCS refunds the UK VAT, I would still end up losing money, simply because the import VAT would be higher than UK VAT, like take the PC costs 2500 euros without any VAT, I pay 20% UK VAT, which would be 500eu, so the total price/value of the item that comes up to the customs is 3000eu, then I pay 21% of 3000, which is 630, PCS refund me 500eu, I end up losing 130eu.
I'm afraid that's just a fact of life.

As an example, the courier companies here in Greece stop anything that comes into Greece from outside the EU. They hang onto it for a few days and then contact the recipient asking for Greek VAT (23%) to be paid, which is fair enough, but they then add on their 'processing' fee (which seems to be directly related to the value of the package - which they will open) and a storage fee whilst it's been with them. If I were now to order a £2000 PC from PCS ex-VAT, when it reached Greece the Greek courier company would likely charge me something in excess of €1000 in VAT, fees and storage before they would deliver it....!
 
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Martinr36

Grand Master
I'm afraid that's just a fact of life.

As an example, the courier companies here in Greece stop anything that comes into Greece from outside the EU. They hang onto it for a few days and then contact the recipient asking for Greek VAT (23%) to be paid, which is fair enough, but they then add on their 'processing' fee (which seems to be directly related to the value of the package - which they will open) and a storage fee whilst it's been with them. If I were now to order a £2000 PC from PCS ex-VAT, when it reached Greece the Greek courier company would likely charge me something in excess of €1000 in VAT, fees and storage before they would deliver it....!
be cheaper for you to come over and pick it up.............
 

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
If it eventually comes to having pay VAT and no certainty that customs would be cleared too, I will unfortunately cancel and ask for a refund then re-order from within the EU. I have no time and extra money to lose out like that and quarrel over VAT returns post-delivery. Even if that means having a lesser build and waiting more time. Hopefully PCS has some plan to help this situation from going to this extent
 

andjef796

Rising Star
be cheaper for you to come over and pick it up.............
Opening yourself up for a bigger fine if you get stopped taking it back through the nothing to declare channel...

Unfortunately, this is not PCS's fault but more the lack of guidance as things have been dealt with regarding Brexit. I am not turning this into a political debate, but basically because no deal was made until the last minute, no one knew exactly what is and would be happening - across ALL industries / businesses.

This is now all new to people and the deal has filtered through with little guidance all round and is causing delays in parcels / deliveries / movement of goods etc throughout whilst it seems to have been left to businesses to work out for themselves what is to be applied or not.
 

ubuysa

OMNIPOTENT
Moderator
Opening yourself up for a bigger fine if you get stopped taking it back through the nothing to declare channel...

Unfortunately, this is not PCS's fault but more the lack of guidance as things have been dealt with regarding Brexit. I am not turning this into a political debate, but basically because no deal was made until the last minute, no one knew exactly what is and would be happening - across ALL industries / businesses.

This is now all new to people and the deal has filtered through with little guidance all round and is causing delays in parcels / deliveries / movement of goods etc throughout whilst it seems to have been left to businesses to work out for themselves what is to be applied or not.
A bit OT but that's not what I'd do. Bringing a PCS PC into Greece personally would mean just Greek VAT to pay - saving the couriers company's rip-off charges. :)
 

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
I am not from Ireland, but yeah, same rules apply all over EU now, you have to pay whatever VAT that the country has on all orders above 22eu value. However, I do not understand why PCS ask for VAT if UK government states that they should not charge any VAT for good that are sent from UK to EU (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-exports-dispatches-and-supplying-goods-abroad#vat-on-exports)
 

andjef796

Rising Star
Sorry - there as mention of Ireland earlier in the post so assumed it was you.

@ubuysa - apologies - wasnt meant to be OT - was pointing out the issue re VAT confusion is a general topic all around all industries at moment and PCS are probably just as confused as larger firms on it due to such a late Brexit deal etc.

@kozuki - where are you based? It might be that there is an arrangement in place where the UK company charges the tax and shows it as paid on the documentation that will be attached to the courier paperwork and then they forward it on - speak with PCS and see if that is what will be happening?
 

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
Sorry - there as mention of Ireland earlier in the post so assumed it was you.

@ubuysa - apologies - wasnt meant to be OT - was pointing out the issue re VAT confusion is a general topic all around all industries at moment and PCS are probably just as confused as larger firms on it due to such a late Brexit deal etc.

@kozuki - where are you based? It might be that there is an arrangement in place where the UK company charges the tax and shows it as paid on the documentation that will be attached to the courier paperwork and then they forward it on - speak with PCS and see if that is what will be happening?
I am in Lithuania. Currently awaiting for an answer from PCS as my machine is still in pre-production. Thing is that the type of company that the order is made through usually doesn't have to pay any VAT even for 3rd country imports in the customs as we are VAT payers here, so we get the exempt for those on purchases (this might clash with some of my messages from before, but I just confirmed that with a colleague).
 

SpyderTracks

Recluse
Moderator
I am in Lithuania. Currently awaiting for an answer from PCS as my machine is still in pre-production. Thing is that the type of company that the order is made through usually doesn't have to pay any VAT even for 3rd country imports in the customs as we are VAT payers here, so we get the exempt for those on purchases (this might clash with some of my messages from before, but I just confirmed that with a colleague).
Yeah, VAT is only for UK residents.

You would have to pay your own nations tax rate which is what import tax is.
 

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
Yeah, VAT is only for UK residents.

You would have to pay your own nations tax rate which is what import tax is.
That was my conclusion too, PCS should not charge VAT as the goods are delivered outside of the country and when it reaches the border here, I would deal with my customs here, which is fine, as long as the value on the PCS package is what I have currently paid in full, the initial order and the amendments summed up, without any VAT added on.
 

andjef796

Rising Star
So Have you spoken any more with PCS regarding this. Have they actually invoiced you for the VAT?

What exactly did they say to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

kozuki

Gold Level Poster
So Have you spoken any more with PCS regarding this. Have they actually invoiced you for the VAT?

What exactly did they say to you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not yet, since they emailed my directly first, I emailed back asking for clarification, so far they did not update anything or sent any response back. They said either they can issue new invoices with VAT included and I would need to pay them directly, or they could "issue new invoices for a VAT exempt order where you pay to the courier when the goods are delivered", which sounded a bit weird, so I wanted to clarify on the 2nd option, what did they mean by VAT exempt order and what would I have to pay the courier. Will update as I get answers
 

ubuysa

OMNIPOTENT
Moderator
Not yet, since they emailed my directly first, I emailed back asking for clarification, so far they did not update anything or sent any response back. They said either they can issue new invoices with VAT included and I would need to pay them directly, or they could "issue new invoices for a VAT exempt order where you pay to the courier when the goods are delivered", which sounded a bit weird, so I wanted to clarify on the 2nd option, what did they mean by VAT exempt order and what would I have to pay the courier. Will update as I get answers
I read that as you won't pay UK VAT (the VAT exempt invoice) and the courier will handle the VAT on import to Ireland - which you will have to pay them to take delivery. That's much the same as here in Greece - but hopefully without the rip-off overheads.
 
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