Game Creation

[liamnic2]

yo guys

I was taking a look at that cryengine 3 game creator and I was wandering how easy is it to start using these programmes ?

Or how would I get into stuff like that ? Guys on youtube seem to be only clicking and dragging the write stuff and the create awsome looking maps or features.

Someone said to look at 3ds max ? Anyone know what that is ?

 

[Kalisnoir]

3DS Max is a Modelling program, you model objects / vehicles / characters etc in it, after that you need to create a texture for it (Photoshop or some other decent bitmap software) and then you can apply the UVW (The texture using coordinates) and finally import it into the engine.

CryEngine, like many other engines is a WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) editor (A few others are uSource (Half Life 2) UDK (Unreal Development Kit (The free version of Unreal Engine)) Unity)
Basically this means you can drag and drop objects and entity's into the game and actually see how it will look while editing.

As far as actually editing the game goes you WILL need to learn a programming language. uSource uses C++ (C Plus Plus), Unity uses a combination of C# (C Sharp) JavaScript and another language that I can't remember and no one uses ha, Unreal Engine uses C++ and their own thing called Unreal Kismet which is basically a drag and drop scripting editor (although it will take some learning to use it, it is still a lot easier then learning a language however it is a lot more limited as) unfortunately using only the free unreal engine (UDK) you don't have access to the C++ part. Not sure what CryEngine uses as it's the only one I haven't used as although it is by far the most beautiful engine (Part uSource, part their own) to me it seem'd the most limited as to what you can do and the game we wanted to make wouldn't be possible within it, but I would take a guess that it's atleast C++ (Since it does derive from uSource)

Hope that helps, any questions just ask.

Edit*
I might note that all of these are free to some extent, uSource SDK (Source Development Kit) is available on Steam aslong as you own one game that uses the engine but I'm not sure about licencing, CryEngine is free, although I'm not sure on their licencing for actual release of a game, UDK (to use the full Unreal Engine is very expensive) can be released onto either PC/iOS/360/PS3 aslong as you pay a $99 licence fee and then nothing more until you sell 50k copies, Unity is free, but there is a Pro version which is much better, both allow you to release to PC/Mac at no extra cost, but you will need to buy seperate licenses for iOS/Android/PS3/360.

Source: I'm studying to go into the Game Industry.

 

[liamnic2]

3DS Max is a Modelling program, you model objects / vehicles / characters etc in it, after that you need to create a texture for it (Photoshop or some other decent bitmap software) and then you can apply the UVW (The texture using coordinates) and finally import it into the engine.

CryEngine, like many other engines is a WYSIWYG (What you see is what you get) editor (A few others are uSource (Half Life 2) UDK (Unreal Development Kit (The free version of Unreal Engine)) Unity)
Basically this means you can drag and drop objects and entity's into the game and actually see how it will look while editing.

As far as actually editing the game goes you WILL need to learn a programming language. uSource uses C++ (C Plus Plus), Unity uses a combination of C# (C Sharp) JavaScript and another language that I can't remember and no one uses ha, Unreal Engine uses C++ and their own thing called Unreal Kismet which is basically a drag and drop scripting editor (although it will take some learning to use it, it is still a lot easier then learning a language however it is a lot more limited as) unfortunately using only the free unreal engine (UDK) you don't have access to the C++ part. Not sure what CryEngine uses as it's the only one I haven't used as although it is by far the most beautiful engine (Part uSource, part their own) to me it seem'd the most limited as to what you can do and the game we wanted to make wouldn't be possible within it, but I would take a guess that it's atleast C++ (Since it does derive from uSource)

Hope that helps, any questions just ask.

Edit*
I might note that all of these are free to some extent, uSource SDK (Source Development Kit) is available on Steam aslong as you own one game that uses the engine but I'm not sure about licencing, CryEngine is free, although I'm not sure on their licencing for actual release of a game, UDK (to use the full Unreal Engine is very expensive) can be released onto either PC/iOS/360/PS3 aslong as you pay a $99 licence fee and then nothing more until you sell 50k copies, Unity is free, but there is a Pro version which is much better, both allow you to release to PC/Mac at no extra cost, but you will need to buy seperate licenses for iOS/Android/PS3/360.

Source: I'm studying to go into the Game Industry.

Thanks. I am more interested in the WYSIWYG editor. I only know the simple language of visual basic from school, and I'm still learning that!! lol. Is there some sort of guide or tutorial that I can buy or use programmes to learn these languages ? CryEngine 3 doesnt seem to have a language. Seems to clicking and dragging when in basic form, until you need to edit the size of something etc..

Are you studying at college or uni ? What subjects do you need to know. I have looked into Game programming and design but I dont know what subjects are needed ? I do computing, is that any good ?

 

[Kalisnoir]

Yeah but a WYSIWYG only lets you design the levels and place entity's (triggers, spawn points, etc) without programming the game it would just be exactly the same as the original source files (uSource being half life, UDK being Unreal Tournament, Cry being Crisis) or in Unity's case, you wouldn't be able to do anything at all.

I'm at College at the moment, I left Welding / Fabricating to do what I've always wanted to do, but I honestly can't wait to get to University because College tutors are crap (or atleast where I am!)

It depends on what you want to do when it comes to game development, personally I'm going down the 3D route as I love modelling but I think that comes from my fabrication side in that it's a satisfying feeling to see something you've created. But I'm also learning programming in my spare time so that I can create games my self.

When it comes to Game Development there are only really a few breakdowns(not including audio); Artists (Concept art, textures, 3D) Developers (Programmers) and Designers (The people who come up with the ideas) but for example there is usually a dedicated concept team, a dedicated 3D team etc so it's up to you really what route you want to go down however in smaller indie companies you will usually take several roles, so you will come up with the concept art AND then model it your self.

Do you know which one you actually want to do? You mentioned programming which is originally what I wanted to do first until I realized how much more fun (imo) 3D is. Depending on the type of person you are you could teach your self programming just by looking for tutorials on the internet, C++ is pretty much the most powerful language for Game Programming but it would be easier to learn something like Java or C first which are both OOP (Object Orientated Programming just like C++) and would be beneficial as in the industry employers are more keen for people with a knowledge of several languages as this makes them a lot more versatile.

As far as a degree goes, it doesn't really mean anything, major companies will only take you if you've worked on a AAA game before (A major release game) and no one cares if you've majored in Computer Science, all they care about is that you have a portfolio to prove how good you are. Don't take that as the be all end all though, i'm just saying that from personal experience of looking at job applications, I've not seen any that actually say you need a degree to get the job.

 

[liamnic2]

Yeah but a WYSIWYG only lets you design the levels and place entity's (triggers, spawn points, etc) without programming the game it would just be exactly the same as the original source files (uSource being half life, UDK being Unreal Tournament, Cry being Crisis) or in Unity's case, you wouldn't be able to do anything at all.

I'm at College at the moment, I left Welding / Fabricating to do what I've always wanted to do, but I honestly can't wait to get to University because College tutors are crap (or atleast where I am!)

It depends on what you want to do when it comes to game development, personally I'm going down the 3D route as I love modelling but I think that comes from my fabrication side in that it's a satisfying feeling to see something you've created. But I'm also learning programming in my spare time so that I can create games my self.

When it comes to Game Development there are only really a few breakdowns(not including audio); Artists (Concept art, textures, 3D) Developers (Programmers) and Designers (The people who come up with the ideas) but for example there is usually a dedicated concept team, a dedicated 3D team etc so it's up to you really what route you want to go down however in smaller indie companies you will usually take several roles, so you will come up with the concept art AND then model it your self.

Do you know which one you actually want to do? You mentioned programming which is originally what I wanted to do first until I realized how much more fun (imo) 3D is. Depending on the type of person you are you could teach your self programming just by looking for tutorials on the internet, C++ is pretty much the most powerful language for Game Programming but it would be easier to learn something like Java or C first which are both OOP (Object Orientated Programming just like C++) and would be beneficial as in the industry employers are more keen for people with a knowledge of several languages as this makes them a lot more versatile.

As far as a degree goes, it doesn't really mean anything, major companies will only take you if you've worked on a AAA game before (A major release game) and no one cares if you've majored in Computer Science, all they care about is that you have a portfolio to prove how good you are. Don't take that as the be all end all though, i'm just saying that from personal experience of looking at job applications, I've not seen any that actually say you need a degree to get the job.

Programming seems to be what I'm interested in. But I liked the idea of design but I was told you had to be good at art to do it so I stuck with programming. I take it that the C++ language is something mainly taught at college or uni ? And the more simple ones, Java, C are more likely to be learned from home.

 

[Kalisnoir]

If you've got the commitment then it's easy to learn any program language at home, but it depends on the type of person you are, personally I find it much easier to learn at College because I have less distractions, also, if you can goto College for free still, then you can only benefit from it. Game design is just the coming up with a game and generally requires you to write a 50 page book (to give to a publisher if its a big company) containing everything from character listings, to features, to the story and flow of the game, you need to be creative and able to describe what environments and characters look like. Concept artists are the guys who draw so I don't think you would be required to but you might want to double check.

 

[lemunk]

Easy language to learn and create simple games would be c#. using XNA framework with a free tutorial and a bunch of youtube vids aswell! Ied also avoid c++ as your first language as it is the most difficult language to understand. C is not an OOP language, C-objective is kinda what you would look into. Stay away from JAVA for programming games....honestly its terrible. But for applications its perfect. Programming is not something that is picked up in a "teach me in 2 days" book. It will require extensive practice! Gl, hope you enjoy it!

 

[Kalisnoir]

C is not an OOP language

Thanks for the correction, I'm a 3D Modeler and learning programming in bits and bobs, at the minute though I'm working on a game using the Unreal Engine (UDK Version) so it's mainly UnrealScript.

 

[tfcoulson]

I did c++ a few years ago, learnt the basics of it and then never used it as I got too busy so forgot most of it within a few months. I was looking at c# last year and it looks a little bit more complicated than c++ I thought? I thought it was a bit like the newer version of c++? While C was an older version of c++?

 

[Frenchy]

Id suggest using Unity, I prefer UDK myself tbh but unity free edition is really great, its missing a few features compared to UDK but tbh for learning dev work its ideal. You can drag and drop objects into place but then write code in javascript or c#. Its extremely flexible and to be quite honest, a lot simpler than getting to know UDK.

As far as UDK goes you can use Kismet however you can code in unrealScript too, so the lack of C++ from the full version isnt necesserily too much of a bad thing, especially for any games you will be writing.

 

[Frenchy]

I did c++ a few years ago, learnt the basics of it and then never used it as I got too busy so forgot most of it within a few months. I was looking at c# last year and it looks a little bit more complicated than c++ I thought? I thought it was a bit like the newer version of c++? While C was an older version of c++?

C# is basically the new and improved C++ and Java combined. Its essentially taken the best bits from each language plus some others and made a language out of it. The other languages have their advantages though, C++ can handle multiple inheritence which when used properly can be very powerful however many argue that it is not needed, I disagree though I feel the lack of choice given to developers is a bit restrictive in some cases. Java however has masses of libraries of code available, really nice language in my opinion to work in however JVM's are slow in comparison to native code in C.

C# is very close syntactically to Java though so if you know one, you pretty much know the other.

 

[Kalisnoir]

I've tried Unity as well, and Source (My college is a Valve Academic so that's what we learn on), but for the project me and some friends are doing I feel UDK is the right choice. Although Unity is very broad in what it can do, people seem to under-estimateUDK, and don't realize you can make so much more then just shooters (although i'm sure you're fully aware of the capabilities of both.)

 

[lemunk]

some really good points mentioned, hopefully this will help you decide if this is the right path for you. As for the udk i havent tried it yet but i would love to get my hands on the payed engine so i could use both Udks native langauage and c++. C# imo is what Java should of been, its a brilliant language that takes the best parts of C and throws them into a modern day 3rd gen language. As i said Java is a pretty decent language for application building, but as far as game dev is concerned stay wellllllllll clear of it! As for unity, i love that free engine, i used it for my games dev project at university and got an A15, mostly thanks to the ease of the engine and the god like pipe line it has! Programming is very difficult even if it comes natural, theres the easy way to program (a monkey could do it) and theres the proper way, design princples etc, basically thats what seperates the men from the boys.
Some top advice is complety ignore engines.......honestly you must 100% learn at least 1 langauage to understand the princples first before you even think of using an engine!

 

[DanteWilhelm]

The thing is with education is that it's all well and good but degrees and qualifications have been devalued somewhat, everyone is going to Uni these days, a lot of them come out of it and are straight onto jobseekers AND, every, seemingly EVERYTHING has been turned into a course of some sort, you can study literally anything.

Qualifications didn't get me anywhere, it's the knowledge you attain, you may need pieces of paper to do certain jobs but think of it this way, if you go into a game development studio and you do a bit of programming or modelling, or even in your own home and someone who can employ you see it, and is very impressed with your work.

Would they say, ''wow that's great but you need this and this qualification'', if you can blatantly do the work at an extremely high standard you'll most likely land the job without any formal qualifications!

If you want to go into game design, design your own indie, freelance game, once you have gained a reputation and have a portfolio of work somebody will want you to work for them and offer you a paid position to develop games.

Do it for free, gain attention and work your way up.

Not that I'm saying ''don't go to college'', so long as the tutors are good it's valuable, but value the info more than the bit of paper.


Anyway, this is aimed at the guy who started this thread, best of luck on your ventures, and remember there are a lot of geeky people in here who may or may not be smart and may or may love video games

 

[DanteWilhelm]

I've tried Unity as well, and Source (My college is a Valve Academic so that's what we learn on), but for the project me and some friends are doing I feel UDK is the right choice. Although Unity is very broad in what it can do, people seem to under-estimateUDK, and don't realize you can make so much more then just shooters (although i'm sure you're fully aware of the capabilities of both.)

it's honestly incredible what people have done with UDK, I've had many a ''really?'' moment when someone says to me ''this game was made in UDK''.

I love Blender and I've forgotten the addon, but wow, look up ''blender titanic'' and then there's some photorealistic living room, the things I've seen in Blender, the particle and water physics and the photorealism, blows my mind!!

 

[Frenchy]

I've tried Unity as well, and Source (My college is a Valve Academic so that's what we learn on), but for the project me and some friends are doing I feel UDK is the right choice. Although Unity is very broad in what it can do, people seem to under-estimateUDK, and don't realize you can make so much more then just shooters (although i'm sure you're fully aware of the capabilities of both.)

Lol yeah I know both very well as I use both alot. I dont think people really underestimate UDK, I think people are more intimidated by it tbh. UDK is extremely good but can be very complex, however it covers much more than Unity free edition does. For example if you wish to use rendered textures, setting this up in UDK is relatively straight forward using the output of a camera as the input to a material however this is only possible in Unity Pro. Same goes for shaddows.

Unity is great at all types of games not just shooters, it just happens that the demo they provide is a simple shooter however you can create anythign you like, its not specifically geared towards one style of game. In fact I would say out of the two, if you wanted to make a racing game you would be much better off using Unity than UDK as with UDK you will spend a lot mroe time rewriting code, extending classes to create new game types etc, unity is a much lower level framework and isnt setup as default to be a shooter.

 

[Frenchy]

Some top advice is complety ignore engines.......honestly you must 100% learn at least 1 langauage to understand the princples first before you even think of using an engine!

Hmm not sure I agree with this statement. I will never 100% learn a language, neither will anyone else, programming like anything else teaches you new things constantly, plus languages evolve. I also wouldn't tell someone to ignore engines because tbh thats almost the same as saying ignore any built in java libraries and learn how to implement it yourself before you go using the libraries. Practising with the available libraries is what makes you learn, Give someone a real world problem to work towards and all the available engines, resources available and they will learn just as quickly if not quicker.

My advice would be learn the basics, Object Oriented design, methods/functions, classes, objects, inheritence, then other useful things like generics. This will give you a very good grounding for most modern OO languages. Once you have these basics work on some more advanced level programming until you feel confident comign up with solutions, this practise can be by jumping in and designing a game, just make sure you do the reading on it first, learn how game loops run, memory managent etc and learn about the graphics pipeline. Don't spend your time trying to learn every bit of the language because you won't ever get there.

 

[TheKeir]

I would recommend learning C++ aswell as anything else you need to learn for editing a specific game, since many, many games use C++ so it would be useful for the future even if you won't use it right now. It's not the easiest language, but it is definitely one of the most useful.