Stuttering happening

[Sorc]

Hi guys,

I had to replace the SSHD in my laptop last month as it was dying (as confirmed by SeaTools, CrystalDisk) and replaced it with a Crucial 2TB SSD and reinstalled Windows 10 from there. Everything seemed great until this week when suddenly I am getting slowdown, micro-freezes, typing/mouse input lag and even had my touchpad become completely unresponsive (restart fixed it once and uninstalling/reinstalling synaptics "fixed" it the second time) after pressing down lightly to clean it (it wasn't the hotkey to disable touchpad, by the way, I tried that. The cursor actually disappeared once after restart and only came back when I reinstalled synaptic).

I am unsure what could be causing the issue and have racked my brains trying to figure out what could be causing it. The new SSD is performing as expected according to SeaTools, CrystalDisk Mark/Info. My CPU will spike in Task Manager's Process tab from around 10% to 40% utilisation and back down again once the micro-freeze happens. The GPU also sometimes (not every time) spikes massively from 5% utilisation to 100% and back down again, perhaps indicating that is the issue? I am also (rarely) seeing spikes in SSD usage during micro-freezes but this seems to happen less frequently and less extreme than the GPU spikes. Wifi also often spikes during these freezes too, which I find odd.

I have tried SFC /scannow, DISM, CheckDsk. I have done a full system scan with Windows Defender, RKill and Malwarebytes. I have adjusted my CPU minimum threshold from 5% to 50% in my battery settings (as Windows appears to have not given me the option of multiple battery profiles, I only have 'balanced'). I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling and updating all of my drivers. I have ran Intel's CPU diagnostic tool and it passed all of the tests presented.

Unfortunately the problem appears to persist despite my best efforts and does appear to be worsening slightly over time. I am not a hardware specialist and, as far as I can tell, Nvidia does not appear to have a diagnostic tool for their GPU models so I am unsure how to proceed in identifying and fixing the issue, if it is indeed related to my GPU.

I have also been running HWMonitor today and will attach the results here in case there is anything specific I am missing. This is all under a fairly light load of me browsing the internet with no games or strenuous software running. My CPU does get a little high in terms of temperature even idle at times (somewhere between 50 and 80 degrees celsius). The only other significant software change I have made is to switch from Chrome to Firefox but the problem appears to persist whether Firefox is open or not.

My best guesses are either:
1. The new SSD is either a bit rubbish (unlikely? but I am no SSD expert) or not mounted properly. This would be contrary to the data, it appears to perform just fine in practice, passes all SeaTools tests and benchmarks well in CrystalDisk + 100% on the SMART test.
2. The hardware is somehow damaged. I do travel using this laptop (although not in well over a year thanks to COVID) so I would not be shocked if it has recieved a few "bumps" from airport security. I would have no idea how to identify these issues.
3. I have some sort of software or driver clash, but I have absolutely no idea how to find that out.
4. Overheating causing some sort of throttling issue?
5. Dirt inside is causing issues? I have ordered some compressed air to use tomorrow to see if that sorts it out.
6. Perhaps static damage when I have replaced the SSD? Unlikely as I was grounded but I suppose you never know.

I am, of course, open to other suggestions and any help provided. Specs below and I have attached a few screenshots of task manager shortly after micro-freezes as well as my HWInfo log from just typing out this post. Happy to take photos and upload them here tomorrow of the actual hardware itself to see if anyone far more savvy than I can spot any issues.

Chassis & Display
Octane Series: 15.6" Matte Full HD 144Hz 72% NTSC LED Widescreen (1920x1080) + G-Sync
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™ i5 Six Core Processor i5-8600K (3.6 GHz) 9 MB Cache
Memory (RAM)
16GB Corsair 2400MHz SODIMM DDR4 (1 x 16GB)
Graphics Card
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1060 OC 1480 MHz - 6.0GB GDDR5 Video RAM - DirectX® 12.1
1st Storage Drive
2TB SEAGATE FIRECUDA 2.5" SSHD
Memory Card Reader
Integrated 6 in 1 Card Reader (SD /Mini SD/ SDHC / SDXC / MMC / RSMMC)
AC Adaptor
1 x 330W AC Adaptor
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Battery
Octane Series 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery (82WH)
Thermal Paste
COOLER MASTER MASTERGEL MAKER THERMAL COMPOUND
Sound Card
Intel 2 Channel High Definition Audio + MIC/Headphone Jack
Wireless Network Card
GIGABIT LAN & WIRELESS INTEL® AC-9260 M.2 (1.73Gbps, 802.11AC) +BT 5.0, vPRO
USB/Thunderbolt Options
3 x USB 3.0 PORTS, 2 x USB 3.1 PORTS, 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Keyboard Language
OCTANE SERIES BACKLIT UK KEYBOARD WITH NUMBER PAD
Operating System
Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc. Single Licence [KK3-00002]
Operating System Language
United Kingdom - English Language
Windows Recovery Media
Windows 10 Multi-Language Recovery Image - Unlimited Downloads from Online Account
Office Software
FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft 365® (Operating System Required)
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Browser
Google Chrome™
Keyboard & Mouse
INTEGRATED 2 BUTTON TOUCHPAD MOUSE
Webcam
INTEGRATED 2.0 MP FULL HD WEBCAM
Warranty
3 Year Silver Warranty (1 Year Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 11 working days

 

[Sorc]

Update

I have managed to catch the stutter while Task Manager was open, with some odd results. The GPU usage was at 100% during the stutter (when I hit print screen) but doesn't appear to identify which program is the culprit.

 

[FerrariVie]

Update

I have managed to catch the stutter while Task Manager was open, with some odd results. The GPU usage was at 100% during the stutter (when I hit print screen) but doesn't appear to identify which program is the culprit.

If it's the spike in GPU usage that's causing your stutters, then it is likely a software or driver issue. I would try updating Nvidia drivers first, then another option would be to check if there's any background app using resources that could be excluded, and last resort would be a clean install of windows from a USB boot disk.

 

[Sorc]

If it's the spike in GPU usage that's causing your stutters, then it is likely a software or driver issue. I would try updating Nvidia drivers first, then another option would be to check if there's any background app using resources that could be excluded, and last resort would be a clean install of windows from a USB boot disk.

Hey Ferrari thanks for the reply! Appreciate it.

I thought the same RE: Drivers. I installed Nvidia Geforce Experience and got new drivers but sadly the issue persisted after that. My next steps for tomorrow are:

1a: Figure out what triggers it. Scrolling back and forth in apps seems to trigger it for some reason, as does leaving the laptop running for 2+ hours.
1b. Boot up in safe mode and try to trigger it, see if it happens then.
2. Open the badboy up and clean it, take a look at the parts in detail, make sure something hasn't unseated itself slightly or whatever.
3. YOLO reinstall windows and start again & see if it persists

As far as background processes go, I think I've disabled most of the stuff in MSCONFIG that isn't windows related or important (e.g. I imagine CLEVO / NVIDIA / stuff is essential). The only thing I can see running that has been a relatively recent install is the Killer xtendutilityservice which was installed with Killer in a Windows update(?). I think I'll uninstall that and see what else happens.

Currently trying to trigger it with no luck, which is odd because before I restarted my laptop I had an uptime of 2+hrs and it was excruciating.

 

[Stephen M]

Mine was a totally different situation but shows how odd Nvidia drivers can be. By changing to a different driver the problem (in my case a log in loop) was solved.

Happened on three machines, one an Octane. On that and one other the latest drivers worked on the other it was an older driver which solved it.

Perhaps trying different drivers may help.

 

[Sorc]

I think you may be correct here Stephen! Since installing the newer Nvidia Drivers and giving it a few restarts (no idea why Device Manager thought was upto date) the problem seems to have significantly lessened, although I am only at 1hr30mins up time right now after giving the inside a little clean with some compressed air (far cleaner than I expected).

With the naked eye I can't seem to see any particular hardware issues going on but I'm also pretty useless at hardware in general. Have attached a photo just in case anyone can see something I can't.

I've removed a few things including the Killer network software which was for an ethernet cable that I do not use. Another thing to note was that I removed WhatsAppTray, a Github software that allows you to minimise Whatsapp Desktop to the system tray.

I'm hoping the problem will have mostly gone away, as it has so far, but I won't be able to tell properly until I have some more uptime.

I appreciate the help guys! I will update the thread if the problem returns, at which point it will be time to mess with my drivers again, start in safe mode and, if all else fails, reinstall windows entirely!

Sidenote: I'm not sure how often thermal paste should be replaced but it does appear my CPU in particular is sometimes running at high 80's in degrees celcius when performing non-trivial tasks and 40-60 degrees idle. I've got it raised up on a mesh laptop stand to allow for airflow but I'm unsure if high temp could be the point where it throttles to avoid damage.

 

[Stephen M]

Glad things seem to working ok, hope it keeps up. If I manage to keep to schedule, often a very big if, I try to give the inside and fans a blow out every three months, although often more like six months and they are not too bad but depends where you are using the machine.

Pasting either when the temps look bad or two yearly but am sure everyone has their own preferences.

I would certainly keep an eye on Amazon sales for paste, tools and stuff when offers are on, there can be a few goodies quite cheap.

 

[FerrariVie]

The good thermal paste brands are sold out on Amazon for a few weeks, I've been trying to find a Noctua NT-H2 for a while now without success.

Your CPU behind below 85° under heavy load is still good, no worries there. I have a DTR with desktop Ryzen 3 and can keep my temps under that range as well, 40-50 on idle, 50-60 when light load and 70-80 when on heavy load and they're good enough. So since you have an i5, 85° is acceptable in my opinion.

Regarding the picture, it's too small and I can't see a thing

 

[Bhuna50]

The good thermal paste brands are sold out on Amazon for a few weeks, I've been trying to find a Noctua NT-H2 for a while now without success.

Your CPU behind below 85° under heavy load is still good, no worries there. I have a DTR with desktop Ryzen 3 and can keep my temps under that range as well, 40-50 on idle, 50-60 when light load and 70-80 when on heavy load and they're good enough. So since you have an i5, 85° is acceptable in my opinion.

Regarding the picture, it's too small and I can't see a thing

Available in 3 to 4 days from Amazon.

Noctua NT-H2 10g, Pro-Grade Thermal Compound Paste incl. 10 cleaning wipes (10g): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Buy

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[Sorc]

Ah thank you again for the extremely helpful messages! Sorry, no idea why the picture uploaded in that resolution!! Link here to the actual photo (hopefully):

https://imgur.com/H4IushC

Curiously I notice in the picture, perhaps because of the lighting(?), the small particles of dust look like sand in the fans. It definitely doesn't look like that "in person" lol.

In terms of the thermal paste, my system was bought around 2.5 years ago, should I be re-doing it despite the temperatures being in decent parameters?

I had a bit of a gaming session tonight on Smite, little micro-freezes every now and then but nothing like it was 2 days ago. Really made the experience a lot more enjoyable.

 

[FerrariVie]

Available in 3 to 4 days from Amazon.

Noctua NT-H2 10g, Pro-Grade Thermal Compound Paste incl. 10 cleaning wipes (10g): Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories

Buy

www.amazon.co.uk

Unfortunately with Brexit the risk of getting extra customs charges and delays when buying from sellers other than Amazon is quite high, so I'm just buying things that are delivered by Amazon, since they are already calculating all the costs.

 

[FerrariVie]

In terms of the thermal paste, my system was bought around 2.5 years ago, should I be re-doing it despite the temperatures being in decent parameters?

On the CPU side of things, if those are the maximum temperatures that you're getting, I would not bother to repaste. However, if noise is bothering you, then a repaste might help (a bit). And what about the GPU temperatures? How are they looking like?

I had a bit of a gaming session tonight on Smite, little micro-freezes every now and then but nothing like it was 2 days ago. Really made the experience a lot more enjoyable.

Well, to be honest, micro-freezes shouldn't happen at all, unless your FPS isn't high enough and those stutters are due to the graphics card not being good enough to process the graphics on your game settings. Your CPU (being desktop) doesn't look too bad, it might be just a bit worse than mine (and I don't get any stuttering).

Have you tried running 3DMark benchmarks? You'll find some instructions here: https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/forums/threads/real-users-benchmarks-rank-of-pcs-laptops.76665/ . Make sure to take a print screen of the final results screen (not just the results URL), as that screen has a graph that shows how the clocks behaved during the benchmarks and we might be able to see if the stuttering is really coming from drops on the GPU or CPU.

 

[Sorc]

GPU Temperature was sitting around 50-60 degrees iirc. Bad news is: after 7 hours of uptime last night the system once again stalled to a slow crawl while idle & had random clicking / right clicking happening, all of which was miraculously resolved after a restart.

I did a complete reset & reinstall of windows today, fully updated to current version and sfc /scannow (found some corrupted files even after a reinstall annoyingly). Things, once again, appear to be fixed but we'll see when it's actually been used for a few hours. I'm currently taking it one software+restart at a time and seeing if anything changes.

The only issue right now appears to be some audio-popping going on despite windows device manager saying all drivers are upto date. Solve one issue (I hope) = get another.....!

Edit: Testing 3DMark Benchmarks tonight, will update in next post. Again I really appreciate the help guys!

 

[Sorc]

Firestrike 3dMark Benchmarks should be attached to this message, the URL for my test is also here: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/58124974?

I did two tests because I forgot to save / view online the first one, I was so concerned with screenshotting! The URL is for the second test.

Interestingly there was no stuttering (as seen in Smite / leaving it on for a few hours) and no audio pops, I could repeat the test if/when the issue is occurring and see if that makes any difference. I'm afraid we're way beyond my technical ability at this point so I'll let you guys have a look.

 

[FerrariVie]

GPU Temperature was sitting around 50-60 degrees iirc. Bad news is: after 7 hours of uptime last night the system once again stalled to a slow crawl while idle & had random clicking / right clicking happening, all of which was miraculously resolved after a restart.

I did a complete reset & reinstall of windows today, fully updated to current version and sfc /scannow (found some corrupted files even after a reinstall annoyingly). Things, once again, appear to be fixed but we'll see when it's actually been used for a few hours. I'm currently taking it one software+restart at a time and seeing if anything changes.

The only issue right now appears to be some audio-popping going on despite windows device manager saying all drivers are upto date. Solve one issue (I hope) = get another.....!

Edit: Testing 3DMark Benchmarks tonight, will update in next post. Again I really appreciate the help guys!

How did you reinstall windows? The correct way is using a USB boot drive and deleting/formating the windows partition and starting from scratch. The repair/recover/reset from the advanced start-up is not enough and doesn't clean your windows install completely.

If you're still getting popping sounds, this is what solved them for me:

Edit these settings on your current windows power plan:

• Disabled USB settings > USB selective suspend settings > Plugged in: Disabled.
• Turn off PCI Express > Link State Power Management > Plugged in: Off.

 

[Sorc]

Ah, in that case I will do a reinstall again but this time the correct way! Although that was already the procedure I followed with this new hard drive at the beginning of February (replaced the old faulty SSHD and installed windows via usb), just not most recently.

For a bit of background on that, the system was having issues slowing down at random, writing updates/steam slowly and failed all SeaTools tests & CrystalDiskInfo gave it warning so I replaced it about a week and a half ago with a 2TB Crucial SSD that seems to be performing quite well now.

I've already tried changed those options in the power settings sadly, just double checked now, but thank you for the input on it!

Will update after I do a proper wipe & usb reinstall

 

[FerrariVie]

Firestrike 3dMark Benchmarks should be attached to this message, the URL for my test is also here: https://www.3dmark.com/3dm/58124974?

I did two tests because I forgot to save / view online the first one, I was so concerned with screenshotting! The URL is for the second test.

Interestingly there was no stuttering (as seen in Smite / leaving it on for a few hours) and no audio pops, I could repeat the test if/when the issue is occurring and see if that makes any difference. I'm afraid we're way beyond my technical ability at this point so I'll let you guys have a look.

Regarding your firestrike graphs, 2 things I could notice:

1. You're very likely GPU bottlenecked, which can be seen by the 100% load on the GPU in the combined test;
2. Your CPU kept going up and down during most of the tests. Only Physics test kept it topped up all the time, which might be for the same reason as above. The CPU doesn't need to be running at high clocks all the time, since it's still waiting for the GPU to process. If the CPU had a dip in the physics tests, then I would say that something weird was going on.

My case is the opposite, I'm CPU bottlenecked so the CPU stays 100% all the time, while on the combined test it's the GPU that drops a bit. What it means is that bottleneck shouldn't give you stutters, but you could have drops in FPS because of the hardware not being able to keep up, which I assume it's not the case, right?

Ah, in that case I will do a reinstall again but this time the correct way! Although that was already the procedure I followed with this new hard drive at the beginning of February (replaced the old faulty SSHD and installed windows via usb), just not most recently.

For a bit of background on that, the system was having issues slowing down at random, writing updates/steam slowly and failed all SeaTools tests & CrystalDiskInfo gave it warning so I replaced it about a week and a half ago with a 2TB Crucial SSD that seems to be performing quite well now.

I've already tried changed those options in the power settings sadly, just double checked now, but thank you for the input on it!

Will update after I do a proper wipe & usb reinstall

The drive that you replaced was the boot drive?

 

[Sorc]

Right, have completely reformatted & reinstalled windows via usb. I did find somrthing interesting: the audio pop only occurs when Windows updates, it isn't present in a completely clean install while windows is doing all of its updating. I think it's from when Windows installed Realtek Audio Console but I'm not 100% certain.

RE: Benchmark: Wow, that's interesting, thanks. Yeah, in terms of the slowdown it's not a lack of frames it's just a freeze-up for around 1-4 seconds and then there was the subsequent issue I discovered while trying to trigger the freezes where entire system just started running slowly after being on for several hours. Cursor/Typing lag, things just being very unresponsive when clicked, sometimes random clicks happening without me touching either mouse or touchpad, etc.

RE: SSD: Yep! The drive I replaced was the boot drive so essentially (as far as I'm aware) it should have been a totally clean install but hopefully I'm back to that point now again. The system was having similar issues before this, mostly related to writing updates/steam games but I assume it was down to a confirmed failing drive as those issues appear resolved. Perhaps that assumption was a bit premature.

I'm all for suggestions any more things I should try. The first priority I guess would be actually confirming the freezes are still occurring after a fresh install? (a simple game of Smite and/or scrolling through some reddit posts should solve that as that's when it was occurring). If I can trigger either the freezes or the slowdown I could try doing another Benchmark and see if it looks any different.

Once again, the help is truly appreciated you guys are incredible especially you Ferrari!

 

[FerrariVie]

Right, have completely reformatted & reinstalled windows via usb. I did find somrthing interesting: the audio pop only occurs when Windows updates, it isn't present in a completely clean install while windows is doing all of its updating. I think it's from when Windows installed Realtek Audio Console but I'm not 100% certain.

RE: Benchmark: Wow, that's interesting, thanks. Yeah, in terms of the slowdown it's not a lack of frames it's just a freeze-up for around 1-4 seconds and then there was the subsequent issue I discovered while trying to trigger the freezes where entire system just started running slowly after being on for several hours. Cursor/Typing lag, things just being very unresponsive when clicked, sometimes random clicks happening without me touching either mouse or touchpad, etc.

RE: SSD: Yep! The drive I replaced was the boot drive so essentially (as far as I'm aware) it should have been a totally clean install but hopefully I'm back to that point now again. The system was having similar issues before this, mostly related to writing updates/steam games but I assume it was down to a confirmed failing drive as those issues appear resolved. Perhaps that assumption was a bit premature.

I'm all for suggestions any more things I should try. The first priority I guess would be actually confirming the freezes are still occurring after a fresh install? (a simple game of Smite and/or scrolling through some reddit posts should solve that as that's when it was occurring). If I can trigger either the freezes or the slowdown I could try doing another Benchmark and see if it looks any different.

Once again, the help is truly appreciated you guys are incredible especially you Ferrari!

No worries! Yes, let windows update everything it can and then update some drivers yourself, like Nvidia. If you're still having sound issues, then try using sound drivers found on your account in PCS's page, under downloads. That might be indeed some wrong/faulty driver that windows is installing.

Then try running your games, more than 1 if possible, as the issue might be game-related and report back what you've found. Wish you luck!

 

[Sorc]

Excellent news - the stutter appears to have totally vanished thus far. I'm yet to download any of the other PCS drivers except for the three audio ones (one zip and 2 .rar files). Should I be installing all of the drivers on there?

I have noticed that currently my CPU seems a bit happier without Clevo Control Center installed (sits at 1% idle rather than 8%), so I may leave that out unless there's something in there I drastically need, but I am wondering what some of the drivers do. The synaptic one appears to be an older driver that windows overwrites during an update.

But that's the great news: so far no typing lag, no mouse/touchpad lag, no stuttering in games it 100% stuttered in, no lag/stutter when scrolling through reddit.

I do still have the audio popping issue despite installing the PCS drivers but it's remarkably less worrying than the stutter problem.

Thank you for all of your help, especially Ferrari. Sometimes when dealing with this stuff (esp during lockdown) it's great to know you aren't alone & can be nudged in the right direction. Hopefully that is the main issue solved now!!