TV, plex, audio system advice needed

[Oussebon]

I've ripped our DVD/Bluray collection to MKV to play off a plex server. The server is quite weak (a WD mycloud ex2 ultra). I also have Plex set up on this PC, and can use the PC as a server, reading the files from the mycloud's network shares, or from USB hard drives where I have the MKV files copied to.

Here's the issue I have and want to overcome: The TV will sometimes have audio out of sync when playing a bluray I've ripped to MKV.

This happens both when playing the file via plex (the WD mycloud server or the PC server), or off an external HDD connected to the TV by USB

Playing from the Bluray disc itself on a Panasonic DMR-BWT720 connected to the TV, the audio is fine and in sync.

When playing the MKV file by plex, the audio is not being transcoded by the server. Plex claims it's direct playing.

The source file is fine. Played in VLC, or played on the Plex web player on my PC, the audio is in sync.

Adjusting the Audio Delay setting (including to 0) in the TV's settings doesn't fix it (I have it set to 100ms by default which is fine for all other media).

If I transcode the bluray video and audio in Handbrake, the TV will play that transcoded file perfectly in sync.

My theory is that the TV's audio decoder is struggling with whatever format the audio is in on the certain bluray rips this is prone to happen in.

In which case getting some speakers / soundbar with their own, improved decoder should help?

Besides which the TV's speakers often make a buzzing noise during deep sounds (and no I don't have the bass turned up!). So a sound bar would make sense anyway to deal with that issue.

I don't have a clue about AV things, so any help gratefully taken on this

 

[SpyderTracks]

Just to confirm, I take it the audio is delayed past the video? ie comes later?

And what are you using to rip to MKV?

 

[Oussebon]

Hmm, looking closer, at least one of them has the audio leading the picture, not lagging behind. But it's not the same on all files. Some play fine. Amadeus for instance is pretty much guaranteed to have audio ahead of the picture, while others seem spot on or only with the very slightest de-sync.

The TV, NAS, and PC are all on a wired network.

Using MakeMKV to rip the discs.

Occasionally have to edit the MKV in mkvtoolnix to set subtitle tracks as default, or extract subtitles to re-do in SubtitleEdit if the TV can't play the format and mux them back in, but that doesn't seem to have any effect on audio sync.

 

[SlimCini]

I've never trusted in built TV plex players to achieve much so got a roku stick for all my plex watching. So quick and responsive and playback is perfect, even for 4k rips. Wired/wireless made no difference to me. Wireless roku 50gb 4k files are flawles, but attempt that on my wired 4k TV native plex app and it can't do it.

You'll sense from my inability to truly answer your question...... That I have no idea of the answer to your problem!

 

[Scott]

As above. I had a nightmare with build in Plex on my ex GFs TV. Sorted it in 10 minutes with a Firestick 4k.

Try Plex on your mobile and see what the sync is like. If it's good, I would bet the TV can't handle the processing required.

Sidenote... the absolute best plug in hardware IMO is the Shield TV. Allows game streaming too and the controller is decent. Might be worth a view if you're going to spend on additional HW anyway.

 

[Oussebon]

Thanks guys, all very useful.

Couldn't try plex on the mobile without making a purchase, though did use the Plex media player app on a laptop and playback was perfect, even over wifi which is good to know. Was going to sideload plex onto a spare NowTV box to test that which I've done before, but the ability to do so has been patched out. Guess Roku wanted to sell more Roku devices...

Shield is well out, far too expensive, though the interwebz seems to agree it's great for this purpose.

So the question now is, Roku or Fire Stick. Roku Streaming + is £30 today (only?), as is Firestick 4k.

Suppose I could buy both, return one unopened if the first I try works fine. And return the other / both if they're no good.

Roku has more apps, though nothing that's a deal breaker, but I'd need to go to a different city to collect one. Firestick is more easily available, and can be used with an ethernet adapter. Ultimately I'll go with whatever is less likely to get wibbly with audio playback.

Any thoughts?

 

[SpyderTracks]

I always get the impression Roku is a bit more high end than fire stick, but could just be canny marketing. I’ve got Plex on a firestick (1080p) and works well.

 

[Oussebon]

Do you have any ripped, untranscoded blurays you play via Plex on your firestick?

Kind of tempted to just pop out and buy one.

 

[SpyderTracks]

Do you have any ripped, untranscoded blurays you play via Plex on your firestick?

Kind of tempted to just pop out and buy one.

No, can't say I do. Most of mine are 1080p mkv's but transcoding down to 720p for remote streams, 1080p for local. I use a firestick here in the study on an older TV and my sisters family use a firestick in Australia and the've never reported any issues either.

 

[Scott]

I prefer the firestick personally, but I love the Amazon policies etc. Having said that, I don't actually own a firestick.... I just end up setting them up for everyone

The Shield TV is pretty special. I've got 2 of them. My PC still lives in my cupboard thanks to that little box of magic. Loads of free games on Gamestream too, all be it older titles (Arkham Series, Lego Series, Borderlands 2 etc).

It's worth an eyeball at some point.

 

[SlimCini]

I have had both. In my opinion amazon hardware is trash. Within a year, both their echo dots and their firesticks regularly refused to connect to my WiFi. I had three dots and two firesticks. All got the same issues. Amazon couldn't fix apart from saying factory reset. Which fixed it for a month or two. Then because they were all older than a year they refused to replace any of them and just offered a paltry token £5 off buying new ones. So jacked them in and went Google wifi, Google home and roku. Google home pisses all over amazon echo and imo roku pisses all over firestick. The firestick had laggier response than the roku too which is lightning when pressing any button.

Edit I'm talking about the steaming stick+ which does 4k and is currently about £30. No idea about the regular roku stick.

 

[SpyderTracks]

I have had both. In my opinion amazon hardware is trash. Within a year, both their echo dots and their firesticks regularly refused to connect to my WiFi. I had three dots and two firesticks. All got the same issues. Amazon couldn't fix apart from saying factory reset. Which fixed it for a month or two. Then because they were all older than a year they refused to replace any of them and just offered a paltry token £5 off buying new ones. So jacked them in and went Google wifi, Google home and roku. Google home pisses all over amazon echo and imo roku pisses all over firestick. The firestick had laggier response than the roku too which is lightning when pressing any button.

Edit I'm talking about the steaming stick+ which does 4k and is currently about £30. No idea about the regular roku stick.

That was my assumption also, that Roku was better quality.

 

[Oussebon]

Confirmed trash.

Firestick keeps complaining about insufficient bandwidth. Not the wifi network's fault as the Plex player on my laptop is fine.

Playback also sometimes feels a little juddery. But not like normal judder you get on a TV when you turn off motion smoothing, more like a stream that drops frames.

And yes, swapping between menus on the home page is laggy as hell on the Firestick. Though I'd live with that if it played my movies on Plex okay tbh. Also it plays you adds for Amazon shows that you can't skip when trying to watch things on Prime. Unlike the Prime video app on the TV.

Could try the Ethernet adapter for the Firestick. And need to decide whether to gamble on a Roku Streaming Plus.

 

[SlimCini]

Confirmed trash.

Firestick keeps complaining about insufficient bandwidth. Not the wifi network's fault as the Plex player on my laptop is fine.

Playback also sometimes feels a little juddery. But not like normal judder you get on a TV when you turn off motion smoothing, more like a stream that drops frames.

And yes, swapping between menus on the home page is laggy as hell on the Firestick. Though I'd live with that if it played my movies on Plex okay tbh. Also it plays you adds for Amazon shows that you can't skip when trying to watch things on Prime. Unlike the Prime video app on the TV.

Could try the Ethernet adapter for the Firestick. And need to decide whether to gamble on a Roku Streaming Plus.

What size are your 4k files BTW?

One negative to roku is that it doesn't seem to remember settings in plex. Everytime I watch 4k I have to switch it to direct play the original file rather than transcode the file. Maybe there's a setting I've not found somewhere and it's my fault.

But other than that very impressive. It's just so fast and responsive.

 

[Scott]

Must admit I've never had any of those issues with the Firesticks, or the Dot's/Echo (I've got a couple of those personally). I've used them for streaming via plex over the internet but not over the network. Laggy between the menu's doesn't seem right either. The first gen were rubbish and seriously under-powered but they fixed that with the 2nd gen.

 

[SlimCini]

Must admit I've never had any of those issues with the Firesticks, or the Dot's/Echo (I've got a couple of those personally). I've used them for streaming via plex over the internet but not over the network. Laggy between the menu's doesn't seem right either. The first gen were rubbish and seriously under-powered but they fixed that with the 2nd gen.

Fair enough. The firestick 4k is not as laggy as the first gen ones which were appalling yes, but when you use a roku and then test out a firestick it's noticeable. The other thing that pecked at my head when I switched to google home was that amazon music didn't play nicely with google tech so I chopped amazon music as well and switched to spotify. So amazon lost me from their echo dots, their firesticks AND their music. Their loss, I'm sure I'm hitting Jeff where it hurts. Echo's I've not had for 18 months so maybe the latest ones aren't as buggy. But I've been burned once with amazon tech, so not going back unless google burn me with theirs.

 

[Scott]

I would have gotten into the Google ecosystem but they don't incentivise the same as Amazon do.

Having said that, I got the Dot and the Echo as hand-me down gifts so they were freebies. I only recently purchased another in the black Friday sale for my bedroom (£22). Otherwise I would potentially be with Google devices. On the whole I much prefer Google with the apps stores etc and my Play Music library is HUGE.

I take my media streaming seriously though, hence the Shield TVs over stick offerings. I had a WD TV something or other prior to that. It had the power and fared well but was seriously limited with apps and customisation. Even side-loading was a pain.

 

[Oussebon]

What size are your 4k files BTW?

They're not (even!) 4k

They're 1080p bluray MKV rips, non-transcoded. Size varies but 20-35GB in the main.

I'd point the finger at bitrate alone, but I have transcoded a couple (e.g. Amadeus) to near-placebo quality which actually increases the bitrate to something silly like 34mbps and it plays that fine, but chokes on (certain scenes in) The Last Jedi. Which my (2014? Samsung H6400) plays fine, part from possible periodic lipsync issues.

The firestick gets stroppy with at least some 7.1 Audio tracks, but I can live with switching to 5.1 Audio or Stereo before watching a film - it's only playing on crummy TV speakers anyway. The TV would just refuse to play those without transcoding.

I had a first gen firestick way back and returned it as performance was terrible and it was really loud.

I tried the VLC app and it seems to buffer even less effectively than the Plex one.

I take my media streaming seriously though, hence the Shield TVs over stick offerings.

I would too but too much money Can't invest in that and various other things too.

I'll roll the dice on the 4k Firestick ethernet adapter.
Decided not to go with the Roku Stick + while it was on offer as I'd need to go to a different city to pick it up today. Can always buy one at regular price any time.

My new Genius Plan™️ is to wire up the laptop to the TV, and buy a cheap air mouse. As the plex player on the laptop seems happy with anything I give it, all I need is to click the movie I want and click play from the sofa right... what could possibly go wrong (windows forcing updates during movie watching or popup notifications are my main bets - as well as crummy air mouse being crummy)

 

[Scott]

Must admit, the maximum I've streamed is around 20GB, I don't think I've got anything over that as I always compress the video and ditch the audio I don't need.

The Shields are too expensive, it's their biggest downfall. However, they do justify the price with the gaming stuff. I justified my outlay because it's the only sensible way I have to play games from the PC. Then, unfortunately, I was spoiled so I got another for the bedroom

 

[Oussebon]

The Plex app on firestick seems to have a quirk/limitation where it doesn't let you select playback options for a different version of the file. e.g. Amadeus which I have as the straight rip (18mbps) and transcoded (34mbps). It defaults to playing the 34mbps version, and plays it fine. If I select the 18mbps version, it doesn't play it at all. Could be an audio track it doesn't like (no subs iirc) but I can't try a different audio track as it doesn't let you pick the audio track for a version it's not already playing or has not defaulted to in the title screen(!).

I may yet look into a PS4 and whether that's any good for Plex, as it would make more sense from a gaming POV - Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us, and other non-PC titles.

The main purpose of MKVing the movies is to have a backup of the discs in case they snuff it - we've had discs randomly die, and we may also be moving home which introduces a lot of scope for accidents. Plex is therefore more of a 'bonus', but one I want to make work without spending too much. And I don't have the HDD space for both the originals and transcoded copies sadly.