X.M.P Failures

[Oliver]

Hi Mantadog, we ran multiple tests without X.M.P being enabled. it seems that the RAM is actually underclocking it's profile agaist the BIOs one (the error showed the speed as 1333mhz when its actual and setup speed is 1600mhz) PCS are replacing the RAM and BIOS battery so fingers crossed this should resolve the problems we have been facing.

 

[Boozad]

Hi Mantadog, we ran multiple tests without X.M.P being enabled. it seems that the RAM is actually underclocking it's profile agaist the BIOs one (the error showed the speed as 1333mhz when its actual and setup speed is 1600mhz)

Have I got this right, you ran tests on the RAM with the XMP profile disabled and it read 1333MHz? That's not an error, that's exactly what it should read.

 

[mantadog]

Hi Mantadog, we ran multiple tests without X.M.P being enabled. it seems that the RAM is actually underclocking it's profile agaist the BIOs one (the error showed the speed as 1333mhz when its actual and setup speed is 1600mhz) PCS are replacing the RAM and BIOS battery so fingers crossed this should resolve the problems we have been facing.

Honestly, im trying hard here, I really am. But im also not seeing WHY you are so upset at not being able to run the RAM at 1600Mhz. I have shown you above the percentage increase in performance is 0, nil, nada.... So long as you have enough capacity in terms of RAM you don't need any of the faster stuff...

I will ask again, just for my own curiosity, why do you want to be able to run the RAM under an XMP profile?

 

[Oliver]

Hi All, Just want to address some things. first 1) we are not upset with not getting X.M.P operational, the main problem has been BIOS prompts informing me that the memory is refusing to work correctly with the X.M.P modules on the RAM. 2) The rig ordered is a HPC. We utilize every once of power we can from the unit as a full stereoscopic 3D rendering/development rig running dx11 with particle and voxel simulations (3D world development systems) along side weather modelling systems which are then mapped to the 3D world/model.. It may sound silly at first but we benchmark each rig we have. As per the 1333 test the speed was showing as that *after* the X.M.P profile had been set to 1600. It may sound like a mistake. I'm sorry if any of this just doesnt sound justified or worthy of getting any ounce of support but ultimately every time we boot the computer up now with and without X.M.P we get over-clocking error messages, we rolled back to optimized defaults and left everything in sync. the profile which was ment to work with the memory (profile 2) was missing and the time had reset it's self showing a CHMOS battery could cause problems. I am only relaying the information provided to me by phone support and attempting to my best ability to try and figure out the paths to go.

Once again im sorry if this makes no sense. heres the short version of whats happened i had a no keyboard detected error which resulted in me contacting PCS 4 times to ask whats going on. i finally found out that the USB 3.0 could only be used on my keyboard which i had mapped to usb 2.0 ports. during the diagnostics i was asked by PCS to flash the BIOS of the computer. I wasn't sure of doing this in the first place as before the error with the keyboard their had been no issues with the systems BIOS and ive herd bad things about upgrading the bios in the first place however i was reassured that everything was going to be ok, i even asked had X.M.P been mentioned on the report and was told yes the configuration had been saved.. after upgrading the firmware on the BIOS it seems profile 2 was erased. the machine went back in for repairs after having 3 hours of telephone calls with PCs trying to get the problem resolved. the technical staff had noted that they had set X.M.P on however upon getting the machine back this wasn't the case or something had happened during transit. I contacted PCS once again and went thought 7 hours of testing. unplugging the computer for 20 minutes then plugging it back in and recording the results. of the 9 times the machine was rebooted the error showed up 7 times. I documented each one with each error and found an inconsistency with the BIOS profile and the set rate which was causing the BIOS to flag an error as things didnt add up. This is when I was offered a RAM replacement by PCS which is now being done by them, they also agreed with me that things are not adding up, it could be the BIOS or it could be the X.M.P module inside the RAM chips. ultimately PCS says theirs a fault on the rig so they have asked me to return it for the fixes to take place...

Hopefully this explains everything for now. Once again im sorry if my questions sound silly or odd.

 

[mantadog]

So getting the ram to run under the XMP profile is not actually the problem? The problem is the overclocking failed error?

I presume support has been through every possible option in the BIOS with you? Everything restored to default? It would be a fairly odd situation that you still get an overclock failed error if everything is reset to default settings. Are you 1 billion percent sure you used the correct BIOS for the flash? I guess it could be caused by an error when flashing the BIOS, never heard of it before though.

let us know what happens with the new RAM

 

[Oliver]

Just wanted to provide a quick update...

I contacted PCS by phone at 2pm UK Time asking for an update on my RMA, I got thought to a chap with a distinct Yorkshire accent and whom's name was called zack/jack (not sure what his full name was) anyway after this I got an email back from PCS 1 hour later saying they had conducted their standard burnin test and had found nothing wrong and was preparing to send the machine back without any further tests. This was a major concern for me as the burnin tests do not show up the error i provided. I requested a powerwash test once again calling up PCS to get the problem fixed. They asked me again to explain what the problem was and for the 5th time this month I reexplained the story of X.M.P problems, Ashley said he would contact Wayne, I then emailed Wayne and explained what's happened with the update. I was also able to get thought to Jack (the supervisor) and i explained that their had been a communication breakdown between departments.

The Support Department
run thought 11 hours of solid testing, powerwashing
Replace the RAM
Replace the CMOS

The RMA Department
Run basic tests (15 minutes) Nothing found so
Dont fix anything send it back.

I have then offered PCS the option to for me to pay for the RAM and CMOS if they are not willing to forfill the warranty. I have yet to have a response from PCS and im getting increasingly concerned about the situation.

 

[Oliver]

After talking to Wayne the problem/fault became more clearer.

The RMA department had not done the test repeatedly as it felt just a single power off may not recreate the problem, I had then provided them with more data on how to recreate the problem by powering on from the mains the computer's psu then waiting 5 minutes to fully power on the computer and doing this repeatedly. They said it made sense as they had not done this test yet.

PCS has said they will replace the CMOS battery which will help rule out the old battery/bad battery theory hopefully.

 

[mantadog]

Can you just update us with a single line of what the actual error is? For much of this tread I was under the impression you were just wanting to run the RAM in XMP mode and that was it, now however it seems like you have a different problem that may be related to the XMP issue but is the thing that's causing you the problems.

 

[Oliver]

Overclocking Failed! shows up on boot with and without X.M.P enabled. This happens once every 11-4 boots.

 

[mantadog]

Right ok I think I understand what your trying to say now. Just I spent have this thread asking why you wanted XMP and you didn't explain the problem wasn't XMP in itself but rather this message.

Anyway, now we're past that I'd say hardware fault. Bad news is this could be ANYWHERE, most likely place is the RAM but it could be the motherboard or even the CPU. The fact it only happens randomly also makes it an absolute nightmare to diagnose and fix.

This is exactly the type of situation people complain about most often, the problem is this fault is random and needs excellent communication between the user and PCS but also internally within PCS. 1 thing out of step and its just a complete mess, now PCS seemingly know how to recreate the fault they should get it sorted. Again, let us know how it goes.

 

[Oliver]

Hi Mantadog,

Many thanks, We have tried quite a few times to ask them about recreating the error, we provided in detail this information in written form which has been sent out with the computer. (one staff member complained about there being pages of information.) while others have complained there isn't enough information. We asked PCS what tests they had conducted to say the computer now works, they said they had switched the computer on once and it had not provided any error messages. they had not done the manual testing we had requested right from the very start (and had documented) this format of testing demonstrates the error after multiple reboots which PCS continues not to do making the diagnosed of the fault even more unlikely. it seems PCS has a lot of different note systems

1) the central system on their website which they use only to update customers and attach photos.
2) an internal tracker
3) a private chat system akin to Lync
4) internal individual notes (word) on the Support workstations locked down to the rep only.

As you can imagine this information is fragmented across these different systems and it seems they are not centralized which is causing a communication breakdown inside PCS.

 

[mantadog]

That's what I was getting at, one broken link and that messes things up horribly. You have an intermittent fault and have had to speak to numerous people about it, neither of those are great for continuity. Hopefully you have got through to someone who can sort it out now. Obviously I have no idea what the RMA department operates like but I'd have thought if you can tell them exactly how to replicate it then it should be easy enough for them to get on top of. Often faults are so poorly described in the first instance it is impossible to re create them.

It should be screaming faulty hardware to them, perhaps the problem is time pressure, waiting 5 minutes between re boots could eat into an hour of the day (I know this is not your problem) - I literally have no clue though. Replacing a component then trying again and your at lunch already... I'd be willing to bet its a dodgy RAM stick, must be worth their while to change that out and at least try rebooting a few times.

 

[Oliver]

Hi mantadog, I agree there is certainly a broken line in communication, I have been looking at the online RMA report and it's showing up even more worrying inconsistencies. Firstly the RMA has been approved by the user "system" and not Wayne, second: We have been asking for notes to be applied to the RMA to explain that profile 2 needs to be investigated however we cannot see anywhere in the RMA that their is just that. Finally the report is pushing up older reports of power issues however it doesnt interlink between the previous RMA which is very much related to this one (even the tech support said they was able to re-create the issue in the past) Finally I agree I think time is causing PCS headaches, when i contacted them this afternoon they explained they was under heavy load/lots of computers in for repair so it makes me wonder if they have just skimmed over my RMA. I even offered to pay the full price for the replacement RAM in an attempt to get the computer fixed with PCS rejected that offer, they asked me to replace my keyboard, mouse and monitor to fix the overclocking error...an over-clocking error caused by a keyboard. anyway i compiled with this in the past and still had the issue throughout the build's life dating back to 2012. I'm pretty much out of options with the only option to write a formal letter of complaint if the problem isn't escalated or dealt with correctly. We have provided letters, emails, phone calls and several days spent trying to troubleshoot and find the problem, when we did we logged and provided photo evidence. We have tried to get the problem fixed in every possible way only for PCS to cast the problem out as being nothing. All I can say is we are stuck and unhappy customers.

 

[Oliver]

as part of the open communication I am provided between PCS and myself I shall provide the communication I have used internally.

Hi [removed], we need to get this resolved... after speaking to Wayne he seems to have had second thoughts on new RAM. I even offered to pay in full the amount to replace them and they rejected the offer saying the problem wasnt the RAM or the BIOS or the CMOS. They did say they would provide the CMOS replacement but they wouldn't want to replace the RAM (even after 2 RMAs and many emails, letters, phonecalls.)

Here's the inconstancies.

1) they are not stress testing the power wash system i described which is a manual only process which takes 4 hours. this test allows PCS to see if the problem is still happening while simulating the problems. heres what they should do.

3 times
power off the computer, switch off the power from the main switch, the PSU power rocker and hold the power button down for 30 seconds. then wait 30 minutes then power on then do the same but this time do it at 25 minutes, then do the same but this time at 30 minutes.

3 times
power off the computer, switch off the power from the main switch, the PSU power rock and hold the power button down for 30 seconds. wait for 30 minutes then press the power on at the mains and the PSU but do *not* switch the computer on, this will allow time for the power to build up and distribute across the machine so it is ready to come out of its standby mode. wait 5 minutes while it does this then switch the computer back on. switch the computer off and then wait 30 minutes, repeat then wait 25 minutes repeat then wait 30 minutes.

That's the power wash test how it should be done to the textbook.

2) They said they would provide a new RAM kit however they have decided not to on the basis they power washed the computer a single time and no problems occurred. they believe the problem is due to a keyboard and mouse however we have had other keyboards and mice in the past and the problem has still been present in the computer. the only way to resolve the problem in the past was to switch the X.M.P profile from 1 to 2 however as the BIOs has been upgraded this is missing meaning that the BIOS/RAM isn't integrating or responding to the requests of other profiles.


3) On the RMA Wayne has provided a brief statement about the problem explaining that the ram should be swapped with fury as soon as possible. The response back from the tech was only after an initial single test. The RMA notes do not include any steps we had taken to try and re-create the fault. we have been sending Wayne constant email responses and feedback on the problems provided however it seems these are transferred to only his local workstation and not to the external RMA portal. This is a major inconsistency that needs looking into. In addition the RMA was authorised by "system" which means Wayne is not showing up on the reports. this is very worrying indeed.

 

[Boozad]

A simple Google search for 'Overclocking failed' reveals that this is a generic ASUS motherboard boot failure message, it's nothing to do with PCS and what they have or haven't done with your XMP profiles. People have reported BIOS flashing (even to the same revision) resolves the issue, some have reported disabling XMP profiles works, others have said nothing works. It's a hard problem to replicate and even harder to diagnose. 'Power washing' and stress testing will reveal nothing. You're going to have to be patient on this one and drop the hump with PCS.

 

[Oliver]

Hi Boozad, We completely understand the problem is very hard to recreate. We was able to find the missing link between the fault and the hardware involved. We really do love PCS as a company (i will purchase my next computer from them!) but ultimately we have had some pretty rude, irresponsible responses from staff which has made us frustrated. We have been accused of voiding the warranty for switching our RAM to X.M.P even after we saw the information on the invoice the staff even went as far to say we should of purchased an overclocked computer to run X.M.P! Each time the computer goes back to PCS we are losing money on our side as much as they are on their side. We understand that the problem is generic and we hope PCS might be able to narrow down the culprit. We have offered to even pay for all the parts included to be replaced (something which was rejected by PCS) We are happy to put whatever costs are needed towards getting our system stable again. It's if PCS is willing to spend the time to fix the fault, we have been able to successfully recreate the fault by doing a power wash test which can take up to 4 hours. this test recreates the on and off BIOS sub systems and provides a multi-layered troubleshooting approach to the problem. What PCS has provided is a single test which has resulted in no faults being detected. the problem happens over a long time and the quickest way we can simulate the problem is by doing the steps we have suggested above. We have tried many hours of on the phone troubleshooting, flashing the BIOS, replacing mice, keyboards, monitors and using all the tips we know. We have been relaying all the information onto PCS to ensure they are kept in the loop. PCS admitted the problem was there and authorised the RMA with the respond "please provide swap on ram", we wanted to fit the ram ourselves but after the incident with support in the past claiming that all repairs with help/assistance over the phone are not part of the warranty we decided to let PCS install the RAM. sadly it seems they have had second thoughts on this.

I'm sorry if this isn't good enough or if you feel we have the "hump" with PCS but ultimately we just want our computer fixed with the tests done that we requested.

 

[Oliver]

As part of our open commuication systems, I am providing a copy of the letter sent to the RMA department tonight.

Dear RMA Team,

Many thanks for your response, Unfortunately it seems you have only done a single power wash test. In-order to recreate this problem you will have to do the test manually multiple times. (we tested it 11 times back at the lab which took us 4 hours not 30 minutes...)

3 times
power off the computer, switch off the power from the main switch, the PSU power rocker and hold the power button down for 30 seconds. then wait 30 minutes then power on then do the same but this time do it at 25 minutes, then do the same but this time at 30 minutes.

3 times
power off the computer, switch off the power from the main switch, the PSU power rock and hold the power button down for 30 seconds. wait for 30 minutes then press the power on at the mains and the PSU but do *not* switch the computer on, this will allow time for the power to build up and distribute across the machine so it is ready to come out of its standby mode. wait 5 minutes while it does this then switch the computer back on. switch the computer off and then wait 30 minutes, repeat then wait 25 minutes repeat then wait 30 minutes.


In addition you have not checked the 2nd profile under the Ai Overclock tuner>X.M.P>X.M.P Profile which only has one single profile option (profile #1). In previous BIOs we had a secondary profile (profile #2) which we used to stabilize the RAM to run in X.M.P mode at a lower rate Mhz Rate but faster refresh speeds however since flashing to the latest BIOS as authorised by Darren this profile has vanished.

Finally, Wayne said he would provide a new CMOS battery for the BIOS to ensure/ruleout bad batteries. In addition we can confirm we have been using different mice and keyboards through out the tests using both usb 2.0 and 3.0 mice and keyboards and other screens during these tests with the same effect of over-clocking errors, this rules out external power problems.

If you need any more information don't hesitate to contact us.

Many Thanks
Oliver

 

[Boozad]

I'm sorry if this isn't good enough or if you feel we have the "hump" with PCS but ultimately we just want our computer fixed with the tests done that we requested.

There's certainly no need apologise to me, I'm just saying that you will need patience for the issue to be resolved as it could be down to any number of things. I understand it's frustrating but it's not an easy one to solve.

Also I can't comment on PCS' responses to you as I don't represent them in any way. I'd focus on your issue first and foremost.

 

[Oliver]

I wanted to provide an update on what has happened in the past couple of hours.

at 8:00am this morning we got an email informing us that our RMA had been fixed and was ready to dispatch, we contacted PCS to ask them if the extensive testing had been done which we had requested last night. They said that the department was unaware of this and asked me to email them the email i sent to the RMA department, I went ahead and did this however we got another email confirming that the computer was on it's way back. We decided to contact PCS over twitter to try and establish a new line of open communication, Ben then contacted me from PCS explaining they had allocated a tech dedicated to trying to find the fault using the detailed testing methods I had provided.

at 4:46pm I got a call from Ashley, He said they had found no problems however they requested that I did not touch the BIOS in the future. (I explained that we had loaded the optimized defaults and the default X.M.P profile during troubleshooting with Wayne but had not touched the BIOs since.) I asked if profile 2 on the X.M.P module had been enabled and was told that it may have been, I then reached out to Ben to get a clarification and am now waiting on them to respond tomorrow before the machine is shipped back to us. Once again many thanks to PCS and to the PR/Sales guys who have been working with us to address the problems, They have provided an awesome service!

 

[Oliver]

Hi Guys, wanted to give you a quick update, Ben put the computer on the workbench this morning to test it one last time before it's sent out however the overclocking message showed and after rebooting the computer the motherboard fried up. They believe the motherboard had a failure which resulted in the overclocking failed messages and the two profiles (one that shouldnt be there in the first place!)

so PCS is now replacing the motherboard, once again many thanks to Ben for looking into this for me!! He was up til 8pm last night doing extensive testing which is beyond what we thought was going to happen.

Thanks!
Oliver & Wendy