Defrag SSD? What's the latest thinking?

[martynmoore]

Hi guys

I've just put my system back together after an office move and everything seems a little bit sluggish. Email client takes ages to open, as does 'empty recycle bin'. My Wacom tablet driver failed to load twice.

I put it down to the cold weather or a new year hangover at first, but now it's starting to worry me.

Looking at the state of the drives, my 80GB SSD (with OS and all apps) is 11% fragmented. Two 'working discs' are 3% and 6%.

I read somewhere that SSD OS drives should NOT be defragged but last time I checked, the drive was just 2% fragmented. So if files are getting scattered around, is there a point at which defragmenting is required?

One other possibly relevant point. I switched from Googlemail's online interface to Thunderbird when I exceeded my 7GB limit online. I stored thousands of messages locally and then freed up space online. The original location chosen by Thunderbird was my C: drive (the 80GB SSD with OS and apps). Conscious of the limited space on the C: drive, I changed the storage location used by Thunderbird and moved the messages to another drive.

So the SSD had about 3GB of data written to it and then deleted when the client was reconfigured. Relevant? I don't know.

So, defrag, or no defrag?

And what else could be causing the sluggish performance, given the machine was flying along before Christmas (in a different room)?

 

[tom_gr7]

ssd always = no defrag.

When you say put everything back together, do you mean you literally took the pc to pieces for the move? if so there may be something not fitted/seated correctly.

Or may be a software problem? ran any virus/nasty/baddie scans lately?

 

[martynmoore]

Hi Tom

Thanks for that.

Not to pieces, no, but disconnected Drobo drive, Wacom tablet, network and all other peripherals. Just unplugged everything, basically, and tried to put it all back the same in new location. Drobo wasn't too happy having a different USB port for some strange reason and USB hub driver didn't load on first post-move boot. Now seems fine.

Checked for infections but not found anything. Vital signs look good really. Just don't understand why it needs to think about emptying the bin.

Your advice about not defragging an OS SSD is what I'd heard. But how does that square with an increasingly fragmented drive? 2% to 11% in six months suggests things are getting a bit untidy in there. How do SSDs deal with this? I'd certainly defrag a conventional drive at 11%.

I'd really appreciate a bit of the theory behind this, if you have time.

No worries if not. I just like to learn.

 

[tom_gr7]

Your advice about not defragging an OS SSD is what I'd heard. But how does that square with an increasingly fragmented drive? 2% to 11% in six months suggests things are getting a bit untidy in there. How do SSDs deal with this? I'd certainly defrag a conventional drive at 11%.

I'd really appreciate a bit of the theory behind this, if you have time.

No worries if not. I just like to learn.

I couldn't really tell you how ssd's work to be honest. I'm sure one of the other mods/admins or any users will advise you best there.

 

[Wozza63]

as far as i know, there will be no difference and it will shorten the life as it will be rewriting which has a limit on SSDs, if it gets to about 50% and you notice a much slower system, you can do it

 

[Tracker]

Fragementing is only a problem on mechanical HDD's because of the way the files are stored, a mechanical HDD has a platter which it stores the data on, kind of like a big Vinyl Record. As it gets fragmented, it has to jump all around the record to find all the bits of data it wants, which slows it down.

in an SSD theres no moving parts so it'll find any file just as fast no matter where it is, in fact the way that SSD's work (via arrays of Flash memory linked up by a single "controller", it actually does this on purpose because it can load from several memory modules simaltaneously, giving increased speeds.

so no, never defrag a SSD drive, and you should make sure Windows isn't set to automatically do this either!

i doubt that 3gb of mail messages will affect it, SSD's aren't as sturdy as mechanical counterparts but they can usually survive 500 or so complete re-writes before they begin to deteriorate (and the drive automatically spreads this about the various memory modules via a process called TRIM to help preserve the life/performance).

have you checked all the physical connections inside the machine? just to be sure nothings come loose?

 

[Gorman]

I would put this down to a software issue, if it really annoys try a clean install. As far as defrag goes.

FAT32 Mechanical drive = regular defrag
NTFS Mechanical = defrag every six months or so with incredibly heavy usage, most of the time will make no difference
SSD = Never defrag, even if 100% fragmented it makes no difference to performance and will only waste writes.

 

[liquid]

Hello

Never posted before as I prefer lurking!

Never defrag a ssd. The sort of closest equivalent, well in terns of reclaiming 'lost' space is TRIM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIM

As far as how you do it depends of the drive itself and its firm ware version. You really need to google that drive and trim to find out. some now do it automaticaly periodically but some of the older drives and FW require a third party programme.

My ssd is in a new laptop I bought and was formatted so I havent made sure trim is functional. Really not that fussed atm as from my experiance it just reclaims space not speed or at leat perceived speed. I remember reading win 7 included trim support built in but I would check compatability with the drive and the fw.

Had my ssd for about three and a half years now, best upgrade I have ever done - makes a system so zippy and silent.

 

[vanthus]

And what else could be causing the sluggish performance, given the machine was flying along before Christmas (in a different room)?

Try running the performance trouble shooter,which can automatically find and fix problems. this checks for issues that might slow down your computer,such as programs running in the background.
Open the Performance troubleshooter by clicking the Start button/Control Panel/troubleshooting,Under System and Security, click Check for performance issues.

 

[martynmoore]

Hi all,

Thanks very much everyone. All clear on the defrag SSD point now. Great advice from you all.

I did run the performance trouble shooter and it picked up a problem with the USB driver. It didn't fix it automatically, but now, after a fairly big Win7 update, it's gone away.

Recycle Bin empties instantly, too. It's almost like posting on here chases away the problem. A bit like when I take my Saab to the mechanic to get a noise fixed and then the noise has gone as soon as he starts to listen.

Thanks again.